Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: Gaye Ingram <gingramsuddenlink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 1:25:52 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

I've never taken much part in the UGRR discussions, though I have admired the doggedness of those who face down its merits in guilds and libraries and school curricula. I know such daily efforts pay off in the long run, and they do seem to have had positive results. I certainly am not interested in restating what has already been stated better by others.

Yet I believe someone needs to address issues in Dr. Myra Green posting to the list, if only because that post employs so many questionable
approaches, such problematic assumptions, and the reliance on such vague generalizations. Mine is essentially a call for clarity and logic in a particular, but possibly representative piece in the UGRR literature. To ignore
Dr. Green statement seems to me disrespectful and condescending,
something to which she herself objected.

One of the major problems with Green statement is that it lacks clarity of expression. Her language, particularly her use of vague pronouns
to refer to entire sets of ideas, rather than to specific words in a sentence, makes understanding some of her points exceedingly difficult, if not impossible. For instance, in sentence #3, the writer says, Since the
time before we can remember, victims of zealous, yet marginal experiences
in these vital studies have formed limited conclusions: I have no
idea what is meant in that sentence. What are these vital studies
? I can locate no antecedent that gives me a clue. And is it the
victims who have formed the limited conclusions
? Or those who study the works of those victims?
What is meant by limited conclusions?

In As we participate in these discussions, the above ideas have to
be calculated into the total equation in order to garner equitable, intellectual results---I have to ask which discussions? Which of the
above ideas? What equation? I can locate n
o equation or even a metaphor of an equation in the sentences above.

What is meant by Hence, conclusions are formed with limited information insight and intimacy in historical subjects? I assume the writer means that some who have studied African and African-American history
are limited in information, insight, and intimacy[?] in historical subjects and that in her haste, she simply omitted the conventional punctuation, but I am by no means certain, given the remainder of the statement.

It is neither precious nor pedantic to observe such persistent problems with the use of language. Grammar is nothing more than a description of the way the sentence works, a body of accepted patterns and conventions of the sentence. Barring those conventions, none of us can communicate with others.
Moreover, respect for them disciplines our reasoning. Respect for those who
will read our words demands that we master basic language and reasoning skills.

If we wish to conduct a discussion with others, we must state our ideas clearly. If we want our ideas to find acceptance, we must marshal them logically, coherently, and authoritatively. And authority demands specific, credible evidence, not private and undefined feelings. It is the job of the scholar to locate credible information to account for and render respectable he
r feelings.

Equally problematic is Dr. Green assumption that only members of
a group can understand that group. The study of history and psychology, not to mention semantics and folk life, suggests the contrary is often true. We often miss the most critical assumptions and aspects of
a group culture by being deeply involved in it. Because no one i
n our group questions them, we fail to recognize that our assumptions might
be questionable. Proximity does not guarantee we will discern facts, and i
t certainly does not guarantee we will discern truth.

The statement dismissing as inauthentic and valuable the work involving
cited sources reveals a serious lack of understanding of historical scholarship. It fails to recognize that the cited sources
 are studies that use primary evidence to establish claims. They
are cited by succeeding writers so the reader and student may read them and
determine their validity for herself. They are a courtesy to those who would learn, those who question. They are not substitutes for proof.

I confess to being unable to grasp the writer point regarding early Egyptologists efforts to decipher hieroglyphics, travelers
 attempts to understand tribal masks, and artists appropriation of traditional icons for new purposes. Had the tentative and sometimes
flawed early efforts to decipher hieroglyphs not occurred, would linguists
have been able to use the Rosetta Stone to good purpose? A scholar who is afraid to fail is unlikely to learn much.

Having read Dr. M.L. King Letter from the Birmingham Jai
l, I cannot imagine that in using the phrase paralysis by
analysis or analysis paralysis, Dr. King rejected fact-finding and critical analysis. I recommend his Letter
 to all who would make such a claim. It is a model of logical analysis and the use of relevant example, not to mention a model of precise, effective language. Analysis paralysis is not a phrase Dr. Kin
g coined. It refers to the extension of analysis---not fact finding ---beyond its value, to the point that it obscures truth or impedes action. The concept in no means supports hasty or ill-founded generalizations.

It bears note that in that masterful Letter, Dr. King now
here appeals to the notion of victimhood or special understanding. Rather, like a good rhetorician, he appeals to
universal, Judeo-Christian, and philosophical principles accepted by the overwhelming majority of Americans. He applied these accepted beliefs to the
situation of African Americans, declared that those principles demand we ex
tend the notions of brotherhood and political equity to all. Unlike some of
his later followers, M.L. King understood the dangers of victimhood. He repeatedly called for equality of opportunity, not special
status. He specifically stated that nothing paralyzes more than vi
ctimhood.

That paralysis is true in scholarship as well as in the affairs of state an
d everyday life.

I question the assumption that only one who is descended from African slave
s can understand either the history or personal implications of slavery. If
one subscribed to such a theory, he would have to conclude that meaningful
communication between human beings is impossible, that such a thing as
human rights or feelings exist. The great intellectual disciplines of the liberal arts---literature, history, philosophy, music, the graphic and plastic arts---give the educated person access to experiences not
his own. Thus, they free him from the limitations of ignorance and provincialism.

Last night I was stopped in my reading of Patricia Herr
Quilting Traditions: Pieces from the Past by the image of an African slave found in a block of a Quaker abolitionist quilt. All of you know i
t. That small image captured my imagination, put me in that man p
lace----just as its maker intended it to do. I did not grow up in a home where real want existed, but Angela Ashes taught
me both its features and effects on human beings. For the length of that memoir, I was that little boy who awoke one morning to find his starved brother dead in the bed beside him. And surely one who has looked at the gruesome pictures of the Jewish extermination camps or read accounts like Corre Tin Boom can understand slavery and man inhumanity to man
.

Yet, that little boy in Ireland went on to a strong positive life of action
in which he taught others like himself the powers we share as human beings
, including the power to rise above utter adversity. The Jewish people, to
whom human rights have so often been denied in the long run of history, are
among the great philanthropists and supporters of human rights. Rather than claiming their special victimhood, they have seen in their experiences things common to all mankind.

What focused my whole attention on the image of a shackled slave? Why can I
see even now, as I write, the picture of that cold, curtain less room into
which that Irish child awakened? Why can I never forget the image of Anna Karenina facing those rail tracks? Or of Jesus in Gethsemane, asking to be s
pared the inevitable horrors of the morrow? Why do I see so clearly the boy
Andrew Jackson, blood flowing from the stripe of a British rapier on his f
ace? Why did that image of a slave stop me in my reading?

Because in each case, someone, using the tools peculiar to his discipline,
had developed the skill to communicate to others something that otherwise would have remained private.

The scholar tools are material facts, disciplined reasoning, skepticism, persistent testing of biases, skills of analysis and comprehension,
and language. Only skilled use of all these tools deserves recognition or
credence. One may have special visions and feelings, but she cannot reasonably expect others to treat them as intellectually significant until she has
proven them so through the tools of logic and scholarship, which, incident
ally, are quite varied.

One should not be amazed that the notion of quilt codes i
s treated lightly by members of this list or that the word alleged
 is ascribed to them. So far, neither logic nor credible evidence
has been introduced that will stand the tests of fact or scholarship. These
same list members treat with disdain the claim that the
Holocaust did not exist and that the life of a Kluxer was an innocent romp
in the park.

All of us on this list should be---and I think most of us arequestioners, skeptics. We are like Hotspur in Shakespeare play
I Henry IV. There, Owen Glendower, Hotspur vain and superstitious Welsh father-in-law, howls, I can call demons from the Vasty Deep! Hotspur replies, So can I. So can any man.
The question is, will they come when called!

Until we see those demons, we are not likely to believe in them.

And no one has the right to expect others to credit demons on the basis of
her word alone.

Gaye Ingram


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: Kittencat3aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 06:53:11 EDT
X-Message-Number: 2


I was disturbed by the reference to cited sources being limited, and having
a bad effect on scholarship. That is the opposite of the truth. Cited
sources, such as letters, diaries, oral histories, and other archival
material, are the lifeblood of scholarship; a single reference in an inventory
can lead to an important discovery about events hundreds of years ago. They
are there so that others can check a scholar's work for accuracy, or so
that subsequent writers can pick up where she left off. A bibliography can
tell more about the quality of a scholar's work than almost anything else.
Anyone who's made it through a doctoral program can tell you this, and I'm
frankly shocked that Dr. Green

Oral history has its place. There is no question about that. But oral
traditions that are not confirmed and backed up by other sources are
folklore, not history; look at the story of Betsy Ross, or King Alfred and the
spider, or Dick Whittington and his cat. These stories were once accepted as
history based on oral tradition, but now are rightly considered folklore and
are stated to be such, even in tourist booklets.

I think it is doing a huge disservice to the tragedy of slavery and the
documentable history of African-American quilting to accept a story told by
one woman (who had a reputation for playing jokes on tourists) in an antiques
mall. If Dr. Green's family also had stories of UGRR quilt codes, she
owes it to the scholarly community to write it down and submit it to a
journal, and that means citing any references from family diaries or letters over
the past 150 years.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: Kittencat3aol.com


I sent that last letter before signing it...but yes, that was me. The
first paragraph should end with something along the lines of "I'm frankly
shocked that Dr. Green, or anyone who holds a Ph.D., would think otherwise."

*correction over*

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Lynne Bassett's Book
From: "Lynne Z. Bassett" <lynnelynnezwoolsey.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 09 22:44:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 4

Dear Tracy, Trish, and Gaye,

Thank you very much for all the lovely things you've been saying about the
MassQuilts book! It turned out to be a wonderful project because of the
talents and efforts of many volunteers, and I am indebted to the other
writers who made my job as editor quite easy.

Even before the MassQuilts book came up in the conversation, I was pondering
this question of pieced blocks. Please note the c. 1740s pieced silk
handscreen that is featured in the MassQuilts book--I believe it is
America's earliest example of patchwork--and it has an 8-pointed star block
in the center!

Also, it is my contention that New Englanders should be credited with taking
the idea of the pieced block and running with it the hardest in the early
19th century (after the Industrial Revolution made fabric inexpensive). By
the 1830s, New Englanders had created a great variety of pieced quilts by
playing not only with different block designs (and the influence of woven
coverlet design on early block piecing is undeniable), but by setting them
in every conceivable manner--with or without sashing, on point, straight
set, in stripes, alternating two different blocks, including a center
medallion, changing scale, etc., etc.

I think there was a confluence of influences, including the Industrial
Revolution, and neoclassical design, as has been mentioned in previous
posts. I think we should also consider the possible influence of the
economic depressions of the period that encouraged frugality--first,
Jefferson's Embargo beginning in 1807, which virtually killed New England's
shipping industry, and then the Panic of 1837. Just my thoughts...

All best,
Lynne



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: qhl digest: June 16, 09
From: Lois Palmer <llpalmer1234yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 06:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 5


A0I would like to clarify that the Massachusetts book was written by many
people. At the end of each article are initials that indicate who wrote tha
t section. The contributors names are on pages 529-530.A0 Yes, Lynne Basse
tt edited the book and she did a good job , but do realize that many people
A0 wrote the book. A0 A0 A0 A0 A0 Lois Palmer, Ct A0

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let me vent
From: "Robins-Morris, Laura A" <lrobinsscharp.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 07:46:28 -0700
X-Message-Number: 6

I'm very sorry to be dense but I'm having trouble fully understanding
Dr. Green's comments. I believe she is saying that "scholars" don't
give enough credence to oral history and that in the past such
"scholars" have altered and misunderstood cultures of which they have no
personal knowledge. Yes, no denying that.
But in the case of the "quilt code", there are certain claims that can
be disproved categorically (such as the anachronistic quilt block
names). So does she feel we are wrong (or disdainful) in pointing out
those inconsistencies?
Is she saying that since we have no personal connection we can't dispute
the stories of a code? Is she saying that we can't question the accuracy
of stories passed down through the generations, disregarding all
possibility of misinterpretation or error? Is she saying that by
questioning these stories we are "minimizing slavery"? Or am I
misreading her intention?
Laura


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let me vent
From: Patricia Cummings <quiltersmusegmail.com>


Pardon me for saying this, but is Dr. Brown-Green even a member of this
list? Her remarks were passed to us, secondhand. It seems as though if
someone really wants to have a dialogue, rather than an indiscernible,
ambiguous monologue, (that no one seems to understand), then at least, that
person would join the QHL list. I am pretty good at deciphering the meanings
of language, but had a lot of difficulty following the logic of the post.

The only statement I "took away" was that she suspects that there was some
disdain expressed by our members over the recent Crazy Quilt/Secret Code
Quilt, as analyzed and written about in a new book by a dentist who is
trying, in his own words, to ratchet up the discussion of the topic.

Reading tea leaves could yield more information about all of our collective
ancestors and what they did or thought, in my opinion. :-)

It would be a dull world if we did not all have opinions, and I always
welcome hearing anyone's thoughts, even if I do have difficulty in
interpreting them. Thanks for posting what seems to be an alternative view.

Patricia Cummings
http://quiltersmuse.com/blog/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: pollymellocomcast.net
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 17:28:07 +0000 (UTC)

Gaye,

Thank you for your valuable comments and taking the time to dissect the for
warded post. Dr. Green completely lost me at C2A0"subliminally expressed
memories". I had not ever seen subliminal transmissions as scholarship befo
re. It is difficult to rationally respond to such comments.

Polly Mello

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Let me vent
From: jocelynmdelphiforums.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 17:48:30 +0000
X-Message-Number: 9

----_vm_0011_W6041928391_30246_1245260910
Content-Type: text/plain; charset"utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I do not want to minimize slavery, or its impact on the lives of those wh
o were enslaved.
BUT- I do not see the benefit in making up stories about marginalized or
oppressed peoples, in lieu of researching and telling the true stories.
Slaves were heroic in resisting slavery and in making their way to freedo
m. Let's discover the REAL methods they used in making their escapes, stu
dy how they actually created art, and not tell happy little fictions abou
t their lives. It seems to me that if I accept these fictions, I'm negati
ng the reality rather than affirming it. By choosing to relate stories ab
out slaves making quilts using th century blocks, I'm obscuring what th
ey actually DID do to communicate and plan their escapes.
The idea that a slave would have to make and quilt a block called the Nor
th Star, to serve as a reminder to look for the North Star when trying to
go north, seems incredibly silly to me. It implies that the slaves weren
't intelligent people who knew basic survival skills and how to navigate
by the stars. It caters to the slaveowners' stereotypes of their slaves a
s childlike and foolish, needing guidance by others to effect their escap
es. Let's tell the stories told by escaped slaves about how they devised
and implemented effective escapes, how they assisted each other, and not
let those stories languish in dusty archives while we create new stories
to replace them.


----_vm_0011_W6041928391_30246_1245260910--


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: "Lucinda Cawley" <lrcawleycomcast.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 14:17:52 -0400
X-Message-Number: 10

Hi Polly,
I thought of you when I read Gaye's post. I resisted the impulse to
congratulate her for answering the ridiculous rant by Myra Brown Greene.
Race makes the UGRR issue so touchy. I'm glad that Gaye was braver than
I.
Cinda
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Let me vent
From: Kris Driessen <krisdriessenyahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 11:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 11


Jocelyn very eloquently stated what has bothered me from the first. The public has become so enamored of this myth (perhaps because it is easy to repeat?), they have failed to pay homage to the true heroes of the Underground Railroad.

We all know how inaccurate family memories can be. But I would still have believed Ozella if *any* of her family members had heard of this story before the reporters called. Let's face it, if you want a family story to go down through the generations, you don't tell just one person.

And I flatly do not believe people who suddenly remember family history after HIPV was published, and then go on to make a living exploiting that memory. Shame on the dentist for disrespecting his ancestors that way.

Kris



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: Gaye Ingram <gingramsuddenlink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 09 16:11:15 -0500
X-Message-Number: 12

Oh Cinda, not for me to believe I'm "braver" than you! Whenever I think of you and Hazel C. and a bunch of you up there after 9/11, determined to get to some quilt gathering despite a traffic tie-up caused by a missile spillage on a main highway, I know the limits of devotion to quilts! There ya'll were, in a situation where a good part of northern Virginia could have blown sky high, and you were intrepid in your determination to get to your meeting. I copied those posts for my files, they were so wonderful. You're going to have to find a better one than that <g>.

However, I think you touch on a problem with the Greene post and with the UGRR fantasy in general: we fear we will be labeled "racists" if we note the emperor has on no clothes.

I believe it is important that people resist that fear because it intimidates and because it presumes that people of African-American descent cannot be held to the same standards of scholars from other ethnic backgrounds. That is insulting to African-Americans.

We should be more afraid of letting down the standards of scholarship than of anything anyone calls us, including "racist," so long as that label is unjustified.

If racism is employing the criterion of race in evaluating people or work, I'd say the post on which we comment is racist, for it claims special privilege based on race.

One good thing about paper, real or cyber, is that one cannot see color. She can only see the text, and the text should be the object of study and consideration.

That's what I looked at.

gaye

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Let Me Vent
From: ad <adamroninetvision.net.il>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 09:35:34 +0300
X-Message-Number: 1

Brava, Gaye!
As to the reference to Egyptology and early civilizations, I think I can
elucidate. Early civilizations DID NOT add vowels to Egyptian hieroglyphs so
they could pronounce the words. Nor did early Egyptologists. The Egyptians
themselves, under Greek rule in the last stage of the 4000 year old Egyptian
civilization, adopted the Greek alphabet and used it to transcribe the
Egyptian language, in what became known as the last development of ancient
Egyptian - i.e., Coptic. That was done by the people, to facilitate literacy
the ruling class (headed by a succession of Ptolemys and Cleopatras)
remained Greek speaking. The ancient Egyptian language, in all its stages,
employs signs that stand for 2 to 3 consonants, not separated by vowels,
such as, to quote a familiar example, the Ankh ideogram for "life"
(although the language does possess the vowels a, o, and i). Rather than
laboriously find the Coptic equivalent for every word written in
hieroglyphs, 19th and th century Egyptologists determined that in such
cases the vowel e would be inserted between the consonants, to enable some
uniform reading of texts. Thus snb (health) would be read seneb, and jd
(stability) would be read jed, regardless of how they would have been
pronounced in antiquity. It is merely a convention to facilitate reading,
not an imposition of one civilization on another. It is also a very good
example why history, and the study thereof, should be based on verifiable
facts and documentation.
Ady in Israel




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Let me vent
From: DrMAZ4WCQNaol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 01:11:25 EDT
X-Message-Number: 2


Dr. Green is a member of the QHL. She asked me to pass on her note because
she tried to send it several times and couldn't get through. If I had
anything to say concerning topics on the QHL I have no problem speaking for mys
elf.

Carolyn Mazloomi



Pardon me for saying this, but is Dr. Brown-Green even a member of this
list? Her remarks were passed to us, secondhand. It seems as though if
someone really wants to have a dialogue, rather than an indiscernible,
ambiguous monologue, (that no one seems to understand), then at least, that
person would join the QHL list. I am pretty good at deciphering the
meanings
of language, but had a lot of difficulty following the logic of the post.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: qhl digest: June 12, 09
From: "Greta VanDenBerg" <maquilterepix.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 10:11:41 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Lynn wrote: I wrote a book on sewing for walkers and wheelchairs. (I think
this is a good cause.) . . .

Lynn,

I have purchased your book and I love it! It is a very good cause.

I know I'm a bit behind in posting a response but I wanted to say that 'Walk
& Roll' is not just for the elderly or infirmed but applies to special needs
children too! There have to be lots of marketing opportunities there and
I'm willing to help how ever I can. My daughter attended a special school
where such a resource would have been a very welcome asset - what equipment
wasn't available was made by parent volunteers - anything to make a child's
life better and many of the items in your book can do just that.

As for getting your book into libraries - I will help there too. I am
purchasing a second copy to donate to my local library via your website at
http://www.creativecaregiver.com/.

To keep my post quilt related, I will mention that I quilted the fabrics I
used for the wheel chair bag and covers I made for Brie's chair. Now I just
need to make a few more for various seasons - she loves the colors and
variety is the 'spice of life' after all.

Greta VanDenBerg-Nestle
Quarryville, PA





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE:Let Me Vent
From: "Robins-Morris, Laura A" <lrobinsscharp.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 07:27:04 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4

Thank you, Gaye, and others. I allowed myself to be intimidated by her
title and grand rhetoric, and thought it was just I who couldn't get it.
It is so frustrating when people like Dr. Allen, and Dr Green, and the
authors of HIPV, won't discuss any of the facts that we do know (e.g.
anachronistic block names). They simply resort to philosophical prose,
"it's oral history" and "read the book". I just want to hear some
reasoned discussion.
Laura, in Seattle, 30 days and no rain!


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: History of Cotton
From: "Greta VanDenBerg" <maquilterepix.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 12:07:37 -0400
X-Message-Number: 5

Can anyone suggest some good resources that discuss the history of cotton?
I'm looking for the history as it relates to it's origins of spinning and
weaving the fibers into cloth as early as BC. I have Stephen Yafa's books
and several resources regarding the history of cotton in the United States;
but am wondering if there are any good resources of earlier cotton
production that go back to BC in Egypt, Pakistan and surrounding areas.

Thanks in advance!

Greta VanDenBerg-Nestle
'I plan, God laughs . . .'





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: History of Cotton
From: Mitzioakes <mitzioakesaol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 12:09:45 -0400
X-Message-Number: 6

Have you tried Google? I can find just about anything on that site.
Mitzi



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:History of Cotton
From: xenia cord <xenialegacyquilts.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 12:40:41 -0400
X-Message-Number: 7

An interesting and very readable book is Stephen Yafa, Big Cotton
(How a Humble Fiber Created Fortunes, Wrecked Civilizations, and Put
America on the Map), New York: Viking/Penguin, 05. And for those
who went to Lowell for AQSG and saw the reconstructed mills, the
museums, and the vibrancy of the town, the preface is interesting;
Yafa grew up in Lowell during the 1950s, when the mills were only a
memory and the town was a bleak has-been.

Xenia


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: ] History of Cotton
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkipncweb.com>


The Story of Textiles by Perry Walton, 1912. It is the bible of textile
researchers. Gives history of fibers and then their production in US.
Book was commissioned by various US textile commissions and agents.


Can anyone suggest some good resources that discuss the history of cotton?
I'm looking for the history as it relates to it's origins of spinning and
weaving the fibers into cloth as early as BC. I have Stephen Yafa's books
and several resources regarding the history of cotton in the United States;
but am wondering if there are any good resources of earlier cotton
production that go back to BC in Egypt, Pakistan and surrounding areas.

>>

--------------03070404040900090106--


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE:Let Me Vent
From: Mitzioakes <mitzioakesaol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 11:54:37 -0400
X-Message-Number: 9


--c34f0e29-c37c-4c18-a138-71649ea83ac6
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charsetus-ascii

I guess I am vented out - too many big words for such a simple item - THE UGRR/QUILT IS A MYTH! I am leaving it at the.
Mitzi from rainy Vermont - but the Vermont Quilt Festival opens tonight so who cares what the weather is!!!



In a message dated 06/18/09 10:28:55 Eastern Daylight Time, lrobinsscharp.org writes:
Thank you, Gaye, and others. I allowed myself to be intimidated by her
title and grand rhetoric, and thought it was just I who couldn't get it.
It is so frustrating when people like Dr. Allen, and Dr Green, and the
authors of HIPV, won't discuss any of the facts that we do know (e.g.
anachronistic block names). They simply resort to philosophical prose,
"it's oral history" and "read the book". I just want to hear some
reasoned discussion.
Laura, in Seattle, 30 days and no rain!


---

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: History of Cotton
From: Sally Ward <sallytattersntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 18:19:25 +0100
X-Message-Number: 10

Not the early history that Greta is looking for, but nonetheless a
fascinating browse of UK, and specifically Manchester, textile
industry can be found at a site called 'Spinning the Web':

"Spinning the Web brings together for the first time a unique
collection of some ,000 items from the libraries, museums and
archives of North West England which tell the story of the Lancashire
Cotton Industry".

http://www.spinningtheweb.org.uk/m_display.php?irn7&suboverview&themeoverview&crumbBefore+the+factory

At the bottom of each information page are links to archive material.

Sally Ward


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: History of Cotton
From: Sarah Hough <dougandsarah1gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 13:35:32 -0500

In a box of books to be disposed of, I have a copy of

Textiles. A handbook for the student and the consumer. By Mary Schenck
Woolman, B.S., President of the women's educational and industrial union,
Boxton, Acting Head of the Department of Household Economics, simmons
College, recently Professor of Domestic Art in Teachers College and Ellen
Beers McGowan, B.S., Instructor in Household Arts in Teachers College,
Columbia University, The Macmillan Company, New York 1916

and a  page pamphlet

The Story of Cotton, by the National Cotton Council of America. The only
thing I can find on it that resembles a date is very small on the back 968
(which I am assuming is a date)
Don't know if this is what you are looking for or what they are worth.

Sarah




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Query re: Nimble Needles Treasures on CD
From: Patricia Cummings <quiltersmusegmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 19:08:24 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12

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Hello,

I know that Patricia Randolph died recently and that she was the editor of
Nimble Needles Treasures that was offered on a CD before her death. The link
I have to her website is no longer working, and since I did review the
product on my website, I am getting inquiries as to whether it is available
and where one can purchase it. If anyone has any idea about this situation,
I would appreciate it if you would contact me at: patquiltersmuse.com
Thanks.

--
Patricia Cummings

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Subject: framer in austin, tx?
From: "Julie Silber" <quiltcomplexhughes.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 :54:16 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1

Hi,

I have a friend who needs a good framer in or near Austin, Texas.

She needs someone who understands, and has experience with, framing antique
textiles. In this case, some Victorian Crazy Quilt squares.

Any ideas or leads on someone else who might know?

Thanks,
Julie Silber




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Subject: Re: framer in austin, tx?
From: "Judy Grow" <judy.growcomcast.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 00:30:57 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2

Julie,

I don't know anyone in particular, but, any shop that has a "Certified
Picture Framer" (CPF) means the framer has at least passed a standardized
industry-wide exam, usually given at a trade show. Those who have passed
the test are proud to put those initials behind their name. But not having
those initials does not mean the framer doesn't know the proper methods and
materials for conservation framing. I never took the test, but taught
others how to do conservation textile framing.

However, for sure don't let your friend go to any of the big-box stores
(Michaels, JO-Anns, etc.) for framing. Very little framing is actually done
at their stores, and their staff changes frequently -- at least those in my
area did. Our local Michaels would often hire those that I fired for
incompetence.

Judy Grow
Flemington NJ

> I have a friend who needs a good framer in or near Austin, Texas.
>
> She needs someone who understands, and has experience with, framing
> antique
> textiles. In this case, some Victorian Crazy Quilt squares.
>



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Subject: RE: Cotton
From: Karen Alexander <karenquiltrockisland.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 09 23:00:59 -0700
X-Message-Number: 3

Another old book I have in my collection is The Heritage of Cotton - The
Fibre of Two Worlds And Many Ages by M. D. C. Crawford published in 1924 by
Grosset & Dunlap. For his credentials: it says it says Crawford was
Associate Editor of Daily News Record, former Research Associate in Textiles
American Museum of Natural History and Research Editor of Women's Wear.

The book Xenia mentioned by Stephen Yafa is highly readable. I could hardly
put it down.

Another very interesting book about early textiles is Women's Work The First
,000 Years - Women, Cloth, and Society in Early Times by Elizabeth Wayland
Barber in 19. She also wrote Prehistoric Textiles. I haven't seen that one
yet.

Karen in the islands




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Subject: RE: Cotton
From: "Dale Drake" <ddrakeccrtc.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 08:32:16 -0400
X-Message-Number: 4

And Abebooks has multiple copies of Women's Work for a buck plus shipping
... I just bought a copy for me.

Dale Drake in muggy hot Indiana

> Another very interesting book about early textiles is Women's Work The
> First ,000 Years - Women, Cloth, and Society in Early Times by Elizabeth
> Wayland Barber in 19. She also wrote Prehistoric Textiles. I haven't
> seen that one yet.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: History of Cotton
From: "Greta VanDenBerg" <maquilterepix.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 09:01:49 -0400
X-Message-Number: 5

Thanks to all who replied by post or email - I have a long list of reading
materials to investigate. As I have just begun to spin and weave I'm very
interested in how cotton was produced prior to industrialization.
Eventually I'll be looking into other fibers as well. However, a recent
conversation nudged my curiosity to investigate cotton a little deeper than
I have before.

I have the pamphlet 'The Story of Cotton' and a PDF version can be found and
downloaded, if anyone is interested, at www.cotton.org.

I have Yafa's books and they are truly fascinating - I'm planning to re-read
them with my new purpose. When we lived in MA I had the good fortune to
visit Lowell frequently to learn about textile production and each time I
was looking at the information presented with a new question. Someone
recently mentioned how we can learn new things from the same resources just
because we are looking at them with a new perspective; I believe that is so
very true. I'm looking forward to my next visit.

Greta VanDenBerg-Nestle
In mostly sunny PA - for today anyway!







----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Library Donations
From: Barbara Burnham <barbaraburnhamyahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 06:54:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 6


... As for getting your book into libraries ... purchasing a second copy to donate to my local library ...

Just FYI, library donations are very generous; however, do not assume they will put your donated books into circulation, even when you specify that you want them to do that. My local library said thanks, handed me an IRS form, and then promptly sold the (brand new) books I donated for $.50 each.





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Subject: Re: Library Donations
From: woodmanvbe.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 10:40:32 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 7

Libraries have collection policies and often, space
limitations.A0 your item may replace a damaged copy or if they have
enough copies will probably be sold.A0 For a specialty item it is a
good idea to talk to the selector in that collection area.A0

If the selector feels that there is not an audience in the community
they will not add it.A0 Your viewpoint and theirs may not be the
same.A0

I will say we get some titles that are
"fringe" on a regular basis, not to say that Lynn's title would
be in the loonie group.A0

Laurie, a librarian in Wisconsin

------_090619104032_32499--


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Subject: Quilt Study Groups
From: "Greta VanDenBerg" <maquilterepix.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 11:33:36 -0400
X-Message-Number: 8

Hello!



I have another question - not at all related to my earlier one.



Are there any Quilt Study Group meetings in the Cumberland County area of
Pennsylvania? If anyone is close I would appreciate the information to
share with an interested party who lives in that area. Mt. Joy is the
closest one of which I am aware. Thanks in advance!



Greta VanDenBerg-Nestle

Sitting here watching the sun pay hide-and-seek with the clouds. The clouds
are winning, again!




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: QHL: Libraries
From: "Susan Wildemuth" <ksandbcwgeneseo.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 10:33:17 -0500
X-Message-Number: 9

I was one of many who helped put the small town public library in our area
on computers. To do this we went through the entire collection to barcode
it -- my sister-in-law who was/is the head librarian -- kept all the books.
She and the library board did not believe in the toss and throw method of
maintaining a collection.

Having said that -- It really IS NOT the library's fault when they have do
this. It is all about storage and giving their "customers" what they want
and keeping up with new technology. Kids in our community love the same
books we loved, but they want it in the "new" paperback version -- not hard
cover -- in many cases s-i-l was able to keep both.

Our community is big on the unabridged audiobooks too -- raise your hand if
you love to quilt or take long car drives listening to these audiobooks. I
love audiobooks (I clean house to them), but I am a "tactile" person by
nature and there is something about holding a book that you have been
waiting to read and finding a corner and the time to do it -- that is pretty
close to heaven on earth.

To make this quilt related. She will soon be moving the library from its
present location to the former grade school which closed about two years ago
when the district consolidated with Geneseo (that is another "small town
America" story all together). As I was helping barcode, I noticed that the
library had a first edition Ruth Finley book that I would have gladly
replaced with a new paperback version, but I didn't. There was a first
edition To Kill a Mockingbird which is absolutely my favorite book/movie.

I love and support libraries and the people who work at them -- I know all
of you on this list do to. What would we who study quilt history do without
them?

Sue in Illinois

****
Susan Wildemuth
www.illinoisquilthistory.com





----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Library Donations
From: Arden Shelton <junkoramacomcast.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 10


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I second Laurie's description of library donations. The technical services department also balks at original cataloging of just one book, because the books we buy through the vendors have all the cataloging and labeling already finished. One book is labor intensive. I have better luck if we already own a copy, so all they have to do is slap a barcode and spine label on it, but that is labor intensive too.

We always tell folks who are donating books that they will benefit the library by being sold at the giant Friends' sale we have each year. So....as Laurie suggested, talk with the selector in the collection area before you leave your brand new book behind.

Book acquisition bureaucracy is daunting.


(Ms) Arden Shelton.......selector for all needlework, crafts, design, antiques, furniture, collectibles and costume for our large library system. It's a dirty job......:-)
www.multcolib.org

Portland, OR




________________________________
From: "woodmanvbe.com" <woodmanvbe.com>
To: Quilt History List <qhllyris.quiltropolis.com>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 09 7:40:32 AM
Subject: [qhl] Re: Library Donations



>
> ... As for getting your book into libraries ... purchasing
a second copy
> to donate to my local library ...
>

Libraries have collection policies and often, space
limitations. your item may replace a damaged copy or if they have
enough copies will probably be sold. For a specialty item it is a
good idea to talk to the selector in that collection area.

If the selector feels that there is not an audience in the community
they will not add it. Your viewpoint and theirs may not be the
same.

I will say we get some titles that are
"fringe" on a regular basis, not to say that Lynn's title would
be in the loonie group.

Laurie, a librarian in Wisconsin



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: History of Cotton
From: "Maureen" <maureenbooksandoldlace.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 11:49:49 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11


Here's another:

The Heritage of Cotton: The Fibre of Two Worlds and Many Ages by M.D.C.
Crawford
Associate Editor of the Daily News Record, Formr Research Associate in
Textiles, American Museum of Natural History and Research Editor of
Women's
Wear. Grosset and Dunlap, 1924. Profusely illustrated, 244p, index and
bibliography -- with a nice deco dust jacket and exquisitely decorated
cloth
covered boards.

Maureen in Ashland, Oregon

Can anyone suggest some good resources that discuss the history of
cotton?
I'm looking for the history as it relates to it's origins of spinning
and
weaving the fibers into cloth as early as BC. I have Stephen Yafa's
books
and several resources regarding the history of cotton in the United
States;
but am wondering if there are any good resources of earlier cotton
production that go back to BC in Egypt, Pakistan and surrounding areas.

>>






----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: QHL: Libraries
From: ag340 <ag340aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 14:51:45 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12
 

On Jun 19, 09, at 11:33:17 AM, "Susan Wildemuth" <ksandbcwgeneseo.net>
wrote:

From: "Susan Wildemuth" <ksandbcwgeneseo.net>
Subject: [qhl] QHL: Libraries
Date: June 19, 09 11:33:17 AM EDT
To: "Quilt History List" <qhllyris.quiltropolis.com>
I was one of many who helped put the small town public library in our area

on computers. To do this we went through the entire collection to barcode

it -- my sister-in-law who was/is the head librarian -- kept all the books
.
She and the library board did not believe in the toss and throw method of

maintaining a collection.

Having said that -- It really IS NOT the library's fault when they have do

this. It is all about storage and giving their "customers" what they want

and keeping up with new technology. Kids in our community love the same
books we loved, but they want it in the "new" paperback version -- not har
d
cover -- in many cases s-i-l was able to keep both.

Our community is big on the unabridged audiobooks too -- raise your hand
if
you love to quilt or take long car drives listening to these audiobooks.
I
love audiobooks (I clean house to them), but I am a "tactile" person by
nature and there is something about holding a book that you have been
waiting to read and finding a corner and the time to do it -- that is pret
ty
close to heaven on earth.

To make this quilt related. She will soon be moving the library from its

present location to the former grade school which closed about two years
ago
when the district consolidated with Geneseo (that is another "small town

America" story all together). As I was helping barcode, I noticed that the

library had a first edition Ruth Finley book that I would have gladly
replaced with a new paperback version, but I didn't. There was a first
edition To Kill a Mockingbird which is absolutely my favorite book/movie.

I love and support libraries and the people who work at them -- I know all

of you on this list do to. What would we who study quilt history do withou
t
them?

Sue in Illinois

****


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: qhl digest: June 18, 09
From: Mary Waller <mwallervyn.midco.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 09 15:12:01 -0500
X-Message-Number: 13

>
>
>Ady wrote, "The ancient Egyptian language, in all its stages,
>employs signs that stand for 2 to 3 consonants...."
>
That sounds like"texting"!

Ady, Thanks for the explanation of how hieroglyphs work. It makes a lot
of sense to me.

Mary Waller
Vermillion, South Dakota, USA