March 12 – 14, 1999
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Soap, Detergent, and Scissors Superstitions — The Orvus chemistry thread wraps up as members swap notes on scissors motifs quilted into antique pieces and old superstitions about giving knives as gifts.
- The Hosanna/Hosannah Block — Members identify and compare the Hosanna palm-leaf pattern, tracing published versions back to a 1994 QNM issue.
- Dewhurst Sylko Thread — A thread spool sparks memories of Dewhurst Sylko machine twist, with members from the UK and US comparing what was available to them growing up.
- Redwork and Autograph Quilts — A member describes a vintage redwork signature quilt in her collection, prompting discussion of scissors-quilted motifs on crazy quilts. (see the article on redwork and outline embroidery)
- Common Threads Symposium — Audrey Waite passes along a request related to the “Common Threads: Creating a Cloth for Empowerment” symposium.
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:06:27 EST | From: SudaNim@
…the previous harangue didn’t mention all the other stuff that’s in most detergents: bleaches, brighteners, fragrances, etc.
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:20:06 -0800 | From: Audrey Waite <awquiltr@
A special request to anyone attending the “Common Threads: Creating A Cloth For Empowerment” symposium in Washington, D.C. on March 19-20, please make a note to welcome the Hopi quilters, Marlene Sekaquaptewa and Karen Tootsie. They are a little shy when off the reservation and around people they don’t know. I had lunch with them today and they are excited about going and busy getting their quilts ready. Hope you all have a wonderful time there. Wish I could attend too!
Audrey Waite Sedona, AZ http://www.quiltcamp.com
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:02:04 +0400 | From: Xenia Cord <xecord@>
I taught folklore at Indiana University for nearly 25 years, and in all my reading don’t remember any such bad wishes associated with scissors. The closest thing I can recall is that some poeple believed that placing sharp objects UNDER the bed of a woman in labor would “cut” the pain. A related idea was that a sharp object in a witch’s path would “cut” her power.
Sometime in January or early February, there was a red and green applique, mid-19th century, on E-bay that had red open scissors appliqued all around the border, blade tips and loop handles touching or nearly touching. They were obviously visible and could hardly have been a symbol for some evil intent!
Xenia, in Indiana
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:31:34 -0500 | From: Alan Kelchner <quiltfix@>
The Hosanna pattern that I’m familar with resembles a stylized palm leaf laid diagonally on the block (it’s pieced triangles). The God’s Eye I know doesn’t look like the Hosanna block I know. God’s Eyes are made by tons of kids in schools and homes – cross two sticks, take some yarn and wrap it once around one end, run it to the next end, etc. Change colors as desired. You end up with a yarn “kite”.
But seeing as there are so many names for patterns, well, who knows?
Next !
Now for my stuff – I got my quilt from ebay last week. Gave me the start of my life, I tell you. I got home, and there was this box (12x8x10) on the table. My heart dropped because I was certain I had bought a quilt, and no quilt could fit in there. Wrong. The thing is *thin* ! But it’s exactly what I thought it was. White and yellow, sawtoothed squares in a strippy set, the short sashes are yellow and have triangles that make the blocks feel connected. Great quilt. The yellow has a tiny black and red print, and the printing makes the yellow feel chartreuse ! Weird. Has anyone heard of a thread manufacturer called Dewhurst’s ? I was in an antique shop and found this pincushion, looks like an advertising item. It’s round with a flat top/bottom, and the top/bottom look like the label off a thread spool. The full wording is “Dewhurst’s Sylko Three Shells Machine Twist 40”. I’ve never heard of the company, but I bought it anyway.
Alan
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:52:38 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.co@
Hi all, One of the first books we reviewed in the VQTS newsletter 2 years ago was this book…..it is really a great resource book. It explains how fabric is woven, how thread is spun, how batting is made. I think that anyone interested in textiles and particularaly quilting *needs* a copy of this book in their library……. No affiliation to Harriet, and all that stuff…….I just think that this book is a must for your reference library! Laura In once again stormy N. Texas
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 06:57:47 -0800 | From: Debra Roby <debroby@>
To: QHL@
Subject: QHL: Re: QHL-Digest Digest V99 #70
Message-ID: <36E92B6B.B861349B@>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Deb, thanks for that interesting note on Orvus. Maybe some one on the list with a chemical background could explain how soap differs from detergents. It would be helpful to know .
Your welcome, and part of your wish is fulfilled. From the same chemist husband comes:
English majors are so cute when they try to discuss technical issues…..(BTW, I’m the English major. He have this discussion ALL the time!)
First, a soap is usually a carboxylic acid based material. In the old days, these are derived from natural animal fats by “rendering” with lye. Detergents are usually based on sulfonates, a sulfur based acid. These detergents can be made from naturally occurring alcohols (see below) or petroleum fractions.
from the Merck Index, Tenth Edition, page 8479: (I’ve translated some of the chemist-speak into English)
Sodium Lauryl Sulfate. Dodecyl sodium sulfate; Irium. C12H25NaO4S;
molecular weight 288.38.
C 49.98%, H 8.74%, Na 7.9%, O 22.19%, S 11.12%. CH3(CH2)10CH2SO3Na. Prepared by sulfation of lauryl alcohol, followed by neutralization with sodium carbonate. The article of commerce is a mixture of analogous sodium alkyl sulfates with sodium lauryl sulfate predominating. (Translation: manufacturers start with a mixture of alcohols, not pure lauryl alcohol. This is much cheaper. The resulting product is, naturally, a mixture of sulfates.)
White or cream-colored crystals, flakes, or powder. Faint odor of fatty substances. Smooth feel. Neutral reaction. One gram dissolves in 10 ml water, giving an opalescent solution. Lowers the surface tension of aqueous solutions. Emulsifies fats.
Use: Wetting agent, detergent, especially in the textile industry. Can be used in hard water. Ingredient of toothpastes.
If all else fails, use the Library. You will find a Merck Index there. Merck probably has a website, too, as do most chemical manufacturers. I am back again. He explained (more simply to me), that soaps are based on a carbon acid, and detergents are based on a sulphur acid, so the important thing to note is the end of the chemical name… if it begins with carbo- then it’s a soap; if it begins with sulph- then it’s a detergent.
Is this just more than most people wish to know?
deb
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:58:53 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.co@
OK, while I sort through all my notes on swatch services…..may I have your input.
I would like for you to send me the names and addresses of the swatch services that you are aware of…….I’ll compile a total list and post it next week. I know that Lisa and I get swatches from Vintage & Vogue as well as Benartex and others, but we may have missed one or two <G>. Please email me privately at this address or VQTS’s official address:
TIA………
Laura
>Laura, we need more input from you, the swatch-book authority. Like, what address do we write to for the Benartex swatches? And others? Do you buy from the addresses that advertise in the back of QNM ? There wasn’t nearly enough information for those of us greedy for more knowledge in the VQTS newsletter. It merely whetted the appetite of those of us who couldn’t get to the meeting.
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:26:34 EST | From: EGinebaugh@
Hi again,
On another list that I’m on, we were talking about the quilt on the cover of QNM for April, and that it will be at the AQS show. Since one thought leads to another, I remembered what a great time we had at dinner last year. Do we want to get together again? Joanna, are you willing to gather names for this year? If I am being too forward and assuming, let me know. (But gently, please, I’ve already had a hard morning. <G>) I hope we can get together somehow.
Thanks much,
Liz in Michigan
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:48:38 -0800 | From: “R & L Carroll” <Robert.J.Carroll@>
Hello.
Thanks for the posts on the differences between soaps and detergents. Now if all the manufacturers would label their products with all of the ingredients, we would be able to make informed choices.
Laurette, in So California
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:51:58 +0000 | From: Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@>
Karen,
I’ve appraised several quilts – probably 6 or 7 over the last 20 years that had scissors quilted in the quilt. I know they were all small embroidery scissors and one was “stork” scissors. I do recall that at least one quilt that had scissors (these were all 1 pair per quilt) was a family quilt and it had never left the family. It was felt that these scissors always laid on top of the quilt while in the frame and while the quilter was quilting and she just decided to quilt or probably draw around them and quilt that motif into the quilt. I knew the owner personally, of this one family quilt and I don’t think there would have been a vengeful person in her family of relatives. Just a guess.
Bobbie A. Aug
QLTKAREN@ wrote:
> Sometimes I could kick myself for not bringing a note book to lectures.
A
> couple of years ago I was at a lecture where the speaker was discussing her collection of antique quilts. She had slides. One quilt (1800’s) really interested her because in studying the quilting she found the shape of a pair of scissors quilted into the pattern. She mentioned that it was believed this was some sort of curse or bad wishes to the person that would sleep under it. I was wondering if any of you had heard of this before or if this type of thing in documented in any books. I saw the slide and they were very clearly scissors. I would appreciate any help!
> Karen Osborne
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:55:29 EST | From: QuiltFixer@
I just purchased an old display box made for Embroidery Floss. Has American Thread Company. Silkine Art Thread. on the outside. Has sections for floss to lay in and a glass top. Box is made of heavy cardboard. Really interesting. Would love to date it, but don’t know where to start. Must have been used in a store to keep floss separated and display for sale. Anyone have information to help on this? Toni QuiltFixer@
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:09:44 EST | From: QLTKAREN@
Sometimes I could kick myself for not bringing a note book to lectures.
A couple of years ago I was at a lecture where the speaker was discussing her collection of antique quilts. She had slides. One quilt (1800’s) really interested her because in studying the quilting she found the shape of a pair of scissors quilted into the pattern. She mentioned that it was believed this was some sort of curse or bad wishes to the person that would sleep under it. I was wondering if any of you had heard of this before or if this type of thing in documented in any books. I saw the slide and they were very clearly scissors. I would appreciate any help!
Karen Osborne
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:35:10 -0800 | From: “pepper cory” <pepcory@>
———
> From:
> To: Liz and QHL@
It occurred to me after reading your post that Hosanna and God’s Eye might
> be the same. If the Hosanna pattern (traditionally green and white to represent the palms on Palm Sunday-) was rearranged and if it was pieced
in
> darks and brights radiating out from the center, it would resemble the God’s Eye motif (the string art creations Alan referred to-). Maybe
someone
> saw the possibilities of the Hosanna re-arranged and re-named it. God’s Eyes were big in the late 60’s and 1970’s along with string art and macram�.
> Pepper Cory
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:16:54 EST | From: QuiltFixer@
I have a vintage Redwork Quilt in my collection that is a signature quilt (also known as an autograph quilt). It has many objects like calling cards, baskets, etc., with signature inside them. Among the many things is the outline of a large scissors with two signatures on the blades. I know that I have seen a scissors on some other quilt and maybe I can remember some time soon where that was. 🙂 Toni B.
QuiltFixer@
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:52:34 -0800 | From: “pepper cory” <pepcory@
I have seen the outline of scissors quilted in several quilts and own a crazy quilt which has a life-size scissors embroidered in a corner next to a pair of glasses and the outline of a hand. I think the scissors are symbolic as tools of their maker and far from bad luck symbols are personal marks of the quilter herself. I have also quilted scissors on one of my quilts, thus carrying on the tradition. The last quilt I saw scissors on was a c.1900 Irish Chain from PA. Next to the scissors was the outline of a large hand and a little hand. Across the large hand was written in pencil, and still visible, “Grandma’s Hand.”
But I have heard of scissors (or a knife-) being placed under the bed when a woman was giving birth. The symbolism there was to “cut” the pain and maybe have the tools ready when the baby’s umbilical cord needed to be cut. Is this for your “Myths of Quilting” lecture, Karen? Sounds interesting.
Pepper Cory
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:03:16 EST | From: JBQUILTOK@
I haven’t heard of scissors being a curse, but you should never give a knife as a gift – it will cut the friendship. And if you receive one, you should give the donor a dime. That way, you bought it & the friendship will remain unscathed. Maybe scissors were considered an extention of that ‘logic’ in some area of the country.
Janet
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 20:16:36 -0800 | From: Audrey Waite <awquiltr@>
I took Latin instead of science so all this chemistry is way over my head. But I recently noticed that where I had placed the laundry detergent bottle on the dryer, the container removed the shine in the enamel. Pretty powerful stuff. Was wondering if anyone else has had this happen??
Audrey awquiltr@
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:39:20 EST | From: EGinebaugh@
Ok, Patti, now you went and done it! I just had to go into BlockBase, and grab about 5 of those types of star blocks for a grid to start with. Then I had to get 5 or 6 more paper piecing blocks in EQ, color them, and set them on the different star bases. My eyes are crossing! I’ve been at this for a couple of hours, now! ARRRRGGGHHH! This is way too much fun! I’ll never finish the quilts I have started.
If I find something good, and it’s a slightly different star base, and I squash a different block or blocks other than a pineapple on the quilt, and I color it different, and I give credit for the inspiration where credit is due, will I have a problem with copyright stuff, or am I free & clear? Boy, I’m not sure I can even follow that. And I wrote it! <VBG>
Thanks, Patti, for the kickstart. )
Liz in Michigan
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 99 23:45:21 EST | From: “Bob Mills” <decision@>
I washed a turn of the century quilt which was somewhat crisp and thought it would come out softer. It didn’t so I wondered if I removed all the Orvus in my 5-6 rinses. I have hard water and finished the rinse with 3 gallons of distilled water since my house isn’t equipped with de-ionized water. (Who designed these suburban homes, anyway?)
Then I wondered about hard water and perhaps Calgon in the final rinse would help soften the top. I read the label and the list of salts and decided to try it in rinse water, even tho’ it sounded nasty.
My questions
If I know I have hard water, should I add Calgon or another water softener to the Orvus wash and also rinse?
Is it helpful and safe to rinse in distilled water, sinse I know my water is heavily chlorinated and comes from the Raritan Canal, NJ, a yucky brown water but with great parkland and canal paths for walking? Comments from the conservators and chemists and pros?
Jan Drechsler (not Bob)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bobmills/jan.html
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:20:45 -0500 | From: Jody Bordner <qltgrose@>
CCQHL@ > I, of course asked about them, & he told me one was in the hosanna pattern, > which was similar to the Eye of God. I had never heard of these before. Can > anyone tell me anything about what they look like? Hi Liz, This website and/or its owner, may be able to help you with Bible inspired blocks http://www.mountain-inter.net/~graham/index.html Good Luck Jody
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:18:45 -0500 | From: Jody Bordner <qltgrose@>
> One of the first books we reviewed in the VQTS newsletter 2 years ago was this book…..it is really a great resource book.
Hi all,
I agree with Laura on this one! Harriet has a degree in textiles and it shows with this book..one of my favorites for textile handling and information. To add just another few thoughts to the soap/vs detergent discussion, let me quote her From Fabric to Fibre book, pg 67, “Neither soaps nor detergents themselves adversely affect textile fibers. They can, however, adversely affect finishes and cause certain dyes to run.” She goes on to say…”A general guideline for choosing a detergent is to look for a product with the least amount of ingredients. The more ingredients, the harsher the products tend to be….. A product that is now gettting a lot of attention from quiltmakers is sodium lauryl sulfate, also known as Orvus Paste. This is a synthetic detergent designed to duplicate the soapmaking ingredient in coconut oil–lauric acid. As a synthetic, it eliminates the tendency of coconut oil-based soaps to form a curd, and it retains its cleaning power, even in the processed, acid-type water found in many of today’s citites. Its relatively high viscosity also helps it to handle greasy soil. This product leaves both dyed colors and the “hand” of the fabric unchanged. It has a neutral PH and is especially safe with the fiber-reactive dyes used in many of our cotton fabrics and threads.” I took a class from her several years ago and she really impressed me then on machine quilting, when this book came out and I read it, I was really glad I had spent the money to buy it.
Jody
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:23:12 -0400 | From: Barbara Robson <robsonbh@>
My spool of Dewhurst thread says “Dewhusrt Sylko Three Shells Machine Twist” and on the other side it says “Sylko made in Great Britain by English Sewing Ltd”. it is mercerized 100% cotton. I probably got it when we lived in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 22 years ago! Time flies!
Hope that is helpful.
Barbara Robson
Fox Point, Nova Scotia
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:02:11 EST | From: Pennstudd@
To: QHL@
Hi All,
I just signed up for the digest and am in my 4 th month of quilting. I tie my quilts and have been using embrod. floss, all six strands and then I recently switched to Baroque crochet yarn which holds up ten fold better than the embrod. floss. My question is, I purchase batting which is 48 inches wide and 10 yds long for 9.99 which is the normal price at MAE’s, what is the best way to put the pieces together> I have used stitch witchery and machine basted them, any other hints?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:58:23 -0000 | From: “Sally Ward” <sward@>
I have asked members of the new British Quilt List about Dewhurst = thread – I remember it very well because it was the only thread we had! = It seems that a lot of us are hoarding the old cotton reels from = generations of sewers, and there was a great variety of thread content = and weight of twist. I think there is rather too much to post direct = to this list, but if anyone wants to see the info. I’d be happy to = forward it . In general terms – BQL, being the ‘only’ UK based list so far has to = be ‘all things to all men’ and has a rather more chatty mix of posts = than QHL, but we are collecting gradually more and more enthusiasts and = specialists in the UK field as contributors and lurkers, and I am hoping = to introduce more research content. If anyone has a question which they = think might benefit from UK input, I’d be happy to forward it. (or, of = course, you are welcome on the list yourselves. It is based at = www.onelist.com ) Regards Sally
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:11:24 -0400 | From: Lorraine Olsson <sven@>
My first sewing experiences were with Dewhurst Sylko Threads. I think they were the only ones available in Australia in the 1960s.
Lorraine in Oz
Barbara Robson wrote
> Hi Alan and QHL,
> My spool of Dewhurst thread says “Dewhusrt Sylko Three Shells Machine Twist” and on the other side it says “Sylko made in Great Britain by English Sewing Ltd”. it is mercerized 100% cotton.
> I probably got it when we lived in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 22 years ago! Time flies!
> Hope that is helpful.
> Barbara Robson
> Fox Point, Nova Scotia
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:57:06 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.co@>
Well, is there ANYONE on our list that still subscribes to QNM??? I was at the store yesterday picking up the Summer issue of QUILT Magazine, and yes that’s me in the picture on page 12….Lisa’s dear cat Rocky and one of the triplet crazy quilts appear on page 26 opposite an article that was originally run in the VQTS newsletter….
ANYWAY………I decided to pick up a copy of QNM and there is a 4 page article (a lot of wasted space if you ask me!) on swatch services….only 2 that I was not aware of, and most, except the Kirk Collection are for current fabrics…….soooooooooo…………
I’m still searching for swatch services that you may use in developing your antique textile study/fabric dating books (even if you don’t read QNM on a regular basis any more. I did notice that they have most of their articles farmed out to the quilt makers…hmmmm)
Laura
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:57:29 -0800 | From: Marilyn Maddalena <marilyn@>
I just saw the Hosannah block pictured in QNM No. 261, April 1994, at the top of page 27. This is an article on religious quilts. It looks like three thick V’s graduating in size from large to small, with the points of the V’s pointing to the next larger V. (That’s probably not too clear, but it’s the best I can do!) I don’t have a scanner, but if anyone wants to e-mail me their fax number, I’ll copy the page and fax it to you. I’ll be out of town all next week, though — but I’ll send it to you as soon as I can. Marilyn in Sacramento Marilyn Maddalena
“
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:53:42 -0800 | From: “R & L Carroll” <Robert.J.Carroll@>
Hello!
Re joining quilt batting
You might try butting the two pieces of batt together and whipping them to: gether with a large needle and thread. This is the way I learned years ago and it has always worked for me.
Laurette in So. California
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:07:33 EST | From: Xroadclown@
i’ve heard that if you overlap the batts slightly, and cut them together in a sweeping motion(like a big snake) and then separate them, and then whip stitch them, there isn’t a straight line to sew, and risk being seen.
for what it’s worth melanie
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:25:35 EST | From: SudaNim@
I’ve done the curved-line bit as well; it’s very useful not only because there’s no straight line, but also because they fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, so they’re very easy to keep properly aligned.
The best stitch is a sort of herringbone X. Just whipstitching allows too much wiggle room. The X keeps the sides solidly together.
