July 2 – 9, 2000
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- The Great Curtain Stretcher Mystery — A nostalgic, detailed thread reconstructs what curtain stretchers were and how they worked, complete with US/UK comparisons and warnings about the sharp pins involved.
- eBay’s Role in Pricing and Learning — The debate over using eBay listings as a price guide for antique textiles continues, weighing its educational value against its unreliability.
- Caring for and Storing Textiles — Members trade advice on removing odors from stored textiles and debate whether age-related staining on vintage quilts should be removed at all. (see the article on caring for antique quilts)
- New Publications and Learning Opportunities — Announcements include the debut of Applique Quilts Magazine, a University of Nebraska distance-learning program in quilt/textile history, and a Costume Society of America journal issue with relevant articles.
- Quilt Shows and Exhibitions — Listings cover the Great Pacific Northwest Quiltfest and a traveling National Quilting Competition exhibition at the West Overton Museum.
- A New Member’s Flea Market Finds — A new subscriber introduces herself with a flea-market haul including a vintage sewing machine and an antique thread spool.
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:11:07 EDT | From: QuiltFixer@
In a message dated 7/2/00 9:07:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, QuiltFixer writes: << Subj: Re: QHL: pricing/learning using eBay
Date: 7/2/00 9:07:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time | From: QuiltFixer
In a message dated 7/2/00 7:17:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, quiltfix@ writes: << And once you’re knowledgeable, that knowledge will rub off on others. My sister, who has to have everything new-out-of-the-box, hung a depression-era quilt on her wall, unrestored! Go figure. My mother offered to pay to have it restored for her (not that I’d have charged them), but dear sis insisted that the quilt *earned* it’s imperfections! >> Allen I enjoyed your post very much. Caused me to do some thinking about E-bay and the whole “price” thing. I guess I have to make a confession here about age staining on quilts. I really cannot go along with some people’s desire to remove every single stain that is on a vintage quilt. I can understand cleaning a quilt if it has a bad odor or it’s been dragged through the cow barn, etc., but I run into this problem with people being upset when they cannot make a Redwork Quilt look like new. I feel like saying “think of them as wrinkles on a human’s face.” Maybe it’s my “great advanced age”, that gives me this perspective. 🙂 Anyone else have some thoughts on this? Toni B QuiltFixer@ >>
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 09:39:38 -0700 | From: “Julia D. Zgliniec” <rzglini1@>
Dear QHL and Alan, Alan is right about one thing. Ebay should not be used as a pricing guide. BUT it is and can be a valuable tool ( one of the tools) in learning about items like the tobacco flannels we have been talking about. It is a quick and easy way to see what they are selling for on a public forum. Auctions should not be used as the sole source for information. As I said, it is a good place to start. Alan wrote: Oh wow. Don’t use eBay as a pricing guide! eBay is an auction, and by nature of an auction, the price paid is influenced by three things: 1) The item for sale (quality, rarity, etc.). 2) The buyers available to the seller, and how badly they want the item. 3) How much money the buyer has to spend (large or small) This isn’t retail selling, where you put a price on it and sell it. Points #1 and #2 ( which is Market) ARE part of what is considered in Fair Market Value. #3 is irrelevant Just MHO, Julia
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:20:32 -0400 | From: Merry May <Inspectr@>
Thanks to everyone who answered my plea for help in pricing the tobacco flannels. I did spend some time on ebay yesterday, which was very helpful (also found some interesting antique quilts! I resisted the urge to bid, though). Anyway, I guess my description here on QHL wasn’t as good as I had thought; these were almost all flag designs. Here’s the rundown, in case anyone is curious: Austria-Hungary; Belgium (2, each with different backgrounds); Brazil; Bulgaria; Costa Rica; Cuba; England (2, with one much more of a hot pink color than the other red one – appears to be different dye lots rather than discoloration); France; Greece (2 identical); Ireland (older style flag than the one I’ve seen); Italy (2, each with different background colors); Japan; Liberia; Poland; Portugal (2, each with different background colors); San Domingo; So. African Republic (3 of these; 2 of them with different background colors, the third with a different design & dark blue background); Spain; Sweden (2 different designs); Turkey; one with 2 butterflies and a turquoise background; and two with what appear to be an Indian blanket-type design (both identical). There are also 3 of the small US flags, plus the two large US flags. I just spoke with the owner and made an offer, which she accepted. She also indicated that she knows a gentleman in Maine who has many more of these, who is willing to sell them at a very reasonable price. Sounds like I’m now in the tobacco flannel business! 🙂 BTW, the lady mentioned when we first spoke that she found me through a listing in Maloney’s Who’s Who (an antique guide). I signed up for that list online at least a couple of years ago, and this is now the second person who has contacted me just this year because of being listed with them. (The first one was a producer on “Treasures in Your Home” which runs on the PAX network. ‘Course, Mr. Maloney also works for that show, so I suppose that shouldn’t be a surprise!) Anyway, just a little hint to the pros on this list that it’s not a bad thing to have your name included in this listing. Sorry to be so long-winded; guess I’ve been saving it all up for awhile during my “lurkdom!” <G> Take care, and thanks again to everyone who replied. Merry in southern NJ — Merry May (a.k.a. Inspector Cluesew)
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:14:52 -0400 | From: “Gloria Infinger” <gloria@>
Those of you interested in silks, may want to check out wisker-cards, an e-bay seller. He has a variety of designs from many vendors. Several companies that he mentions, were new to me. Issue of copyright are getting more difficult to interpret; seems no matter what the design, there is the possibility that someone has a version on the net somewhere. How original is original designs? Gloria Infinger of South Carolina gloria@
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:59:41 -0400 | From: “Grandma’s Attic” <GrandmasAttic@>
I noticed Toni’s comments about the curtain stretchers and wanted to add that not only do I remember this process but you cannot believe how many people come into my quilt shop because they’ve found a box of the stretchers and are “just sure” it’s some sort of an antique quilting frame! Rachel Greco Grandma’s Attic Sewing Emporium, Inc. Dallas, Oregon
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 17:16:27 -0400 | From: “Kris Driessen, Hickory Hill Quilts” <oldquilt@>
Delurking for a moment – check out this cartoon: http://www2.uclick.com/client/det/rl/2000/06/30/ Kris
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 19:11:54 -0400 | From: Alan Kelchner <quiltfix@>
Well, if how much money you have available isn’t relevant, I guess that means we can *all* run out and buy whatever we want ! Alan getting out my check book
“Julia D. Zgliniec” wrote: > Dear QHL and Alan, > Alan is right about one thing. Ebay should not be used as a pricing guide. > BUT it is and can be a valuable tool ( one of the tools) in learning about > items like the tobacco flannels we have been talking about. It is a quick > and easy way to see what they are selling for on a public forum. Auctions > should not be used as the sole source for information. As I said, it is a > good place to start.
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 17:47:24 -0700 | From: “Elizabeth Baum” <baumfamily@>
I’m doing some research and am trying gather as much info as possible on the following subject – how did/do people (i) get odors out of textiles and clothes and (ii) prevent odors in textiles (for example when storing them to preventing a musty smell etc.) without damaging the material. I’m particularly interested in “old fashioned”/historical/homegrown techniques (e.g., things our mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers would have used) that would keep clothes, fabrics and textiles fresh or fragrant smelling. Any info, book references, websites, product sites etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 23:47:27 -0500 | From: Mary Waller <mswaller@>
Toni B. wrote: > I have to make a confession here about age staining on quilts. > I really cannot go along with some people’s desire to remove every > single stain that is on a vintage quilt…. I run into this problem with people being upset when they cannot make a Redwork Quilt look like new. I feel like saying “think of them as wrinkles on a human’s face.” Toni, I put on a big grin and tell people, “Hey, I’m 45, and I’ve earned some age spots but I’m not trying to spot-remove them.” Then I scare ’em with the, “You risk doing more damage to the rest of the quilt attempting to get out a few little spots than the spots are worth.” If that doesn’t work, offer to take the stained quilt off their hands if they can’t tolerate the stains and tell them to make a brand-new copy if they have to have a perfect one. Mary Waller, Vermillion, South Dakota, USA
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:37:26 -0700 | From: “lynda chenoweth” <lchen@>
I agree with those who warn against using ebay as a pricing guide. I sell quilts, and buy quilts, on ebay and have had both good and bad luck in selling (but not in buying because I know what I’m looking at…). 20 I am interested in fabric and fabric history and can recommend ebay in this way: I scan it everyday (New Today) and when I come across 19th century fabrics in good condition with good photographs, I print out those quilts for a reference binder I keep with fabric photos. I now have three binders full of fabric examples from quilts that date from the late 18th through the 19th century. The dating ascribed to quilts and their fabrics on ebay has to be taken with a “grain of salt.” There is one dealer, for example, who dates all of his/her quilts to the 1880s – and most are but not all. You have to know what you’re looking at but I have found ebay photos an invaluable addition to my fabric samples for both dating and identification. I rely, however, on my dating – based on research and parallels found in books publishing quilts of known date – to “sort” the ebay offerings into my binders by date. These binders give me added photos to look at when trying to date fabrics in quilts I own and buy. So, I recommend scanning ebay for this purpose if for no other!! L in Sonoma
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:39:27 -0700 | From: “Robins-Morris, Laura A” <lrobins@>
Here it is– the quilt event of the summer! Great Pacific Northwest Quiltfest August 11-13, 2000 10am-6pm Seattle Center Seattle, Washington The fourth biennial jurried and judged exhibition of the finest quilts from Alaska, Alberta, British Columbia, Idaho, Montana, The Northwest Territories, Oregon, Washington and the Yukon. Some of the quilts in our show have been big national winners as well. For those who don’t know, the Northwest is a hotbed of quilting talent. And our three past shows have been spectacular! * 250 fabulous juried quilts. * Special invitational exhibition “Invoking Spirits” (50 small quilts) * Panel Play Project — 36 regional quilt artists created panels for vests and jackets designed by Lorraine Torrence. Gorgeous garments! * Lectures A La Carte — 15 lectures on wide variety of textile topics. * Quiltfest Auction and dinner * Fabulous Merchant Mall. It’s going to be a great show — don’t miss it! If you want any additional information, please email me at lrobins@ or see the APNQ web site at http://www.apnq.org. Laura in Seattle
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 09:38:38 -0400 | From: Newbie Richardson <pastcrafts@>
Dear all, A very reliable price research data base for current antiques prices is the maineantiquesdigest.com. It is the web version of the venerable trade publication. They maintain an extensive data base of prices realized – 60% east coast, 25% west coast, the rest mid-west. They are not as focused on “collectibles” as ebay or Kovels, but for quilts, samplers, coverlets, etc., it is a very valuable tool. Costs nothing – but you do have to register. Curtain stretchers: My neighbor for 6 years here in Alexandria was Mrs Whitehead. She was in her late 80’s when I knew her. She “ironed”. the British ambassador used to bring her the linens from the Queen Mother to “do up”. NO, I AM NOT KIDDING! I interviewed her. She complained bitterly that they no longer made the big. flat, non- steam irons any more. And that she could no longer buy “slick” to coat her iron with! She also was very upset that she could not find a new extra wide ironing board – her husband had to jerry rig one! She had 48 PAIRS of curtain stretchers in her basement! She was an ardent proponent of “Fells Naptha” soap, and of Clorox. The turn of the century christening clothes she washed and ironed looked wonderful – but I doubt that any of them survived to be placed on the next generation baby! She made no appologies. I wash and iron, she told me. I do not work for any museums! I make things clean and pretty! I wonder what the Queen Mother does with her banquet cloths now that Mrs. Whitehead is no more? Newbie Richardson
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 10:20:20 EDT | From: QuiltFixer@
Thanks for sharing that wonderful story about the curtain stretchers and the “Ironing Lady.” I have been meaning to e-mail you some questions to help me. I have found a simple outline sampler made by a little girl in 1902 by the name of Addie. I would like to make or buy a small doll and dress her the way Addie would have been dressed at home in 1902. I am going to guess her age between 6 and 8, probably more likely 6 due to the quality of the embroidery. Do you have such a pattern or can you lead me in the right direction? I would also like to write a simple fictional story and this would lead to Addie’s first Redwork Lesson, etc. I do have “Dressed for the photographer” but are there other books and photos that you know of? I will share this also with QHL with the hope of help and further historic education for everyone, but I know you are the person who has much expertise in this field. Any help greatly appreciated. Toni B QuiltFixer@ The Redwork Lady redworkldy@ www.redworklady.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:32:25 -0700 (PDT) | From: Kris Driessen <krisdriessen@>
OK, I give up. Evidentally I lived a deprived childhood. What the heck are curtain stretchers? I can guess from the discussion – it was necessary to starch sheer white curtains after washing them (why?) and then they were stretched rather than ironed? Why? Were they cotton? Did they shrink? How were they used on a window? Kris
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:09:20 EDT | From: QuiltFixer@
Kris, these were long sticks with very sharp nails sticking out all along the edge. They bolted together to make a square. You pushed the edges of the curtains over the nails. (no bloody fingers allowed)! I can’t remember how they stood up. May have had a stand or leaned against the fence? You did not have to iron the curtains except for a little touching up. These were long sheer cotton curtains that wrinkled when they dried unless stretched. Most “respectable” people hung beneath their drapes or behind the shades, etc. Before these stretchers came into fashion it was one horrible job to dampen and iron them. I remember standing on a box and helping iron them. Pretty soon I’ll remember all the rest of the stuff. Better quit, you guys will think I am at least a hundred! 🙂 Actually, we were still doing this in the 50s! The comment on respectable people was from my Grandmother who considered herself “lace curtain Irish.” 🙂 Just a bit more history there folks. Toni B. QuiltFixer@
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 19:19:09 +0100 | From: “Sally Ward” <sward@>
We were obviously not that respectable in the UK <G> as I’ve never heard of this. How did the curtains not get damaged when hooked over the nails? And did they end up rigid, like blinds? And did the edges have sort of swag-type edges where the fabric wasn’t stretched between the nails (how close were the nails?) I’m fascinated <G> Sally Ward
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 16:30:09 -0500 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.co@>
Elizabeth, Several months ago we had lengthy discussions on removing odors. You might check the QHL archives. But from my notes I have the following: 1) Lay outside over green hedges or on a nice thick lawn. The chlorophyll will help to eliminate odors 2) Just a good old fashioned airing! 3) A cloth pomade of cloves placed with the textiles in an airtight container for a couple of weeks 4) Charcoal I think there were more, but that’s all I can find right now Laura
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 22:49:42 -0400 | From: “J. G. Row” <Judygrow@>
We weren’t lace curtain Irish, (is there such a thing as lace curtain Jewish?) but my mother had curtain stretchers for her sheers. These curtains weren’t tightly woven fabrics, but were more like open netting, or open mesh lace. Therefore, when the edges were pushed down over the nails , 1″ apart, on the curtain stretchers you weren’t making holes. The idea was to put a nail in a natural hole in the curtain. But first, the curtains were soaked in a heavy starch solution. When they dried they were stiff as a board. And yes, there were little “swags” in the fabric between the nails, especially if you stretched the curtain very tightly. I have a curtain stretcher in my garage right now. I can’t remember where I picked it up, but I know I didn’t pay for it. I remember my mother stacking curtains up on the stretcher. First you would put one on, then another one on top of it. You could get 6 – 8 panels of the net type curtains on one stretcher frame, because the nails stick out at least 3/4 inch. In my business as a picture framer I often have to square up, or “block” needlepoint embroideries which have been pulled out of square by having been worked in the tent stitch. We have a 36″ square needlepoint blocker that must have been inspired by the old fashioned curtain stretcher. This has 3 stationary sides with nails, and a fourth side which can move on long screws. It is no longer made and we are trying to keep this one going by constantly repairing it. But since we are always putting wet wool on it, the wood swells and then cracks. I think it is a lost cause.
Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrow@
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 12:22:56 EDT | From: “Mary Perini” <maryperini@>
I still use several pairs of curtain stretchers. I use them for lace and crocheted pieces. The nails are very tiny and they do not damage cloth. It is not necessary to create much tension to get a flat, smooth textile. Just a little touch up ironing is needed. I have a very high ceiling, so I hang the stretchers from a hook on one of the beams in my studio. I just read this. I have made it sound too easy. It takes a bit of work to get a piece properly stretched. Mary Jane Perini in Hagerstown, Maryland __________________________________________
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 15:54:17 -0400 | From: “John Cawley” <cawley@>
I saw a book for children by Faith Ringgold called “Aunt Harriet’s Underground Railroad in the Sky.” It’s about a little girl who takes an imaginary journey on the UGRR with Harriet Tubman as her guide. At one point the child is directed to look for a star quilt on the roof of a house as a sign that it is safe to approach. A note at the end of the story stated that there was a slave custom of throwing a quilt over the roof of a house for good luck. Has anybody ever heard this story. I thought the book was very good. The illustrations, as you might expect, were wonderful. The story, told simply and directly, was moving and historically accurate, but I am wondering about the quilt on the roof. Cinda on the Eastern Shore
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 16:54:18 -0500 | From: “Karen S. Bush” <Birdsong@>
to Jean Eitel and Laura Hobby Sylar, Debby Kratovil, and all the rest of you who put the new Applique Quilts Magazine together!!! I got my FIRST issue today and it’s wonderful!!! FINALLY a magazine for ‘us’ Applique-ers.!!!! YIPPEEEEEE 🙂 kb http://www./karenbushquilts/index.html
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:33:36 -0400 | From: “Peggy O’Connor” <mnoc@>
I know some of you have bought “Down By the Old Mill Stream”. If any of you have now had a chance to read it, I’d love to hear if it provided enough new information to be worth the price. And how are the photos? Thanks! Peggy in N.C.
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:53:41 -0400 | From: “Gerri Bobnar” <gcbfwb@>
I’ve been lurking around for about 8 months. Just got back from a church flea market. Bought some interesting things–an old Singer straight stitch machine with foot pedal for the floor with top loading bobbin with gold emblem seal with black head (in a cabnet) for $10. They told me it was sold because the owner did not like threading it from the opposite direction. Also the machine was cheaper than the others because the cabinet was not as nice as the rest. Little did they know that this machine is far more valuable. But my most interesting find that I discovered was the emblem on a huge spool of thread—-JOHN C. MEYER THREAD CO.—-THE LOWELL THREAD MILLS—LOWELL, MASS. U.S.A. for the cost of $1.00 None of the sellers knew anything about sewing.. Gerri from Southwestern Pa.
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:43:55 EDT | From: Baglady111@
18 prize winning quilts of the NATIONAL QUILTING COMPETITION exhibition are now traveling and can be seen at The WEST OVERTON MUSEUM, a historic village southeast of Pittsburgh, Pa. The theme pattern is NEW QUILTS FROM an OLD FAVORITE—STORM at SEA. The show is being hosted in conjunction with the museum’s own annual juried quilting competition, which has 66 quilts this year. Eleven are ‘challenge quilt’ Museum hours are 10am til 4pm Tues thru Sat and 1 to 5pm on Sun. for info call 724-887-7910 DIRECTIONS from Pittsburgh, take the Pa Turnpike east to NEW STANTON (#8). Take Rt 119 south toward Connellsville. Exit at Scottdale, Rt 819. Turn right. West Overton is on teh right, one mile from the turn. This show runs til the 16th of July..ending with a big icecream socila andthe NATIONAL INTERNATIONAL HARVESTER, ‘BIG RED TRACTOR’. hee haw!!! Admission to the quilt show is $10.00 for both, or $6.00 for either one alone.
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:37:08 EDT | From: Palampore@
I have tried every conceivable route with the U of Neb. site to find out about their Distance Learning Program but I can’t find anything regarding it. Did I dream that they are now offering a degree in Quilt/Textile History and much of it can be taken using the Distance Learning method? I just read 140 emails! We have been on a wonderful trip out West (CO, WY, ID, UT) and now we are totally remodeling our kitchen (removing 2 walls…). Have heard from some of you asking about my whereabouts. This should explain my absence. I need to communicate with someone who is an expert (?) regarding beading. I need a supply source for beads and to discuss methods of beading, etc. Quilt stains can only be identified by using a bioscope, a microscope, and many types of stain removers. There are solvents that remove certain stains such as nail polish and other petroleum based products. Then there are stain removers for protein stains and acid stains. Then there are always stains that do not react to anything. It is a very complicated process because many chemical reactions can occur to alter the stain. These conditions can be age, humidity, heat, length of exposure to staining agent. Stain removal is the part I don’t really care for when it comes to textile conservation. Even if you do finally suceed to remove the stain you are never totally sure if it will reappear to haunt the textile in the future. This is why I usually only wash in Orvus and then only when vacuuming is totally out and all the dyes are stable. There is NEVER a cut and dry “yes” or “no” answer when it comes to stain removal. Much of it is trial and error and hold your breathe……… I love Xenia’s comment….”If you decide you want to wash a quilt. First lay down. Wait until the idea leaves you.” This is a very loose translation but you get the idea. I own an 8 ft. X 10 ft. tank equiped with a deionized water system for washing quilts, however, I am extremely cautionious before I ever submerge a quilt. It’s good to be back with QHL. I own a curtain stretcher. And yes, I first thought it was a weird quilt frame. Lynn Lancaster Gorges, Historic Textiles Studio, New Bern, NC
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:32:04 EDT | From: Palampore@
Today I finally got an opportunity to read my copy of the 1999 Journal for the Costume Soc. of America (DRESS). It has several articles that would be of interest to people on this list. The most pertinent being: “Service with Style:Indigo, Manganese Bronze, and Hoyle’s Purple Dress Prints, 1800-1855” by Susan W. Greene who operates American Costume Studies in Alfred Station, NY.(Footnotes are as good as the article.) There is a book review in there that was very interesting—Bazaars and Fair Ladies: The History of the American Fund-raising Fair by Beverly Gordon, Univer. of Tenn. Press, 1998. An article i hope to read tonight is: “Silk and Style: Affording American Machine-Made Silks at the Turn of the 20th Century” by Jacqueline Field. Not quilt related but an article I want to read is: “In Pursuit of Legitimacy: Home Economists and the Hoover Apron in WWI” by Joan Sullivan. There are several other articles dealing with costume design more than textiles directly. Costume Society is a great organization and I think that some of you might be interested in it. If you want more info. drop me a line. The membership is made up of costumers in theater, textile educators, museum curators, textile conservators, pattern designers, vintage clothing vendors, etc. The SE regional meeting will be in Little Rock the weekend before AQSG. That is the only thing I don’t like about it!!! This year i will have to miss AQSG. I sent an email to U of Neb. asking about their “distance learning” will post after i hear from them. Excuse my lower case “i” my keyboard is worn out from over use. Back to packing up my kitchen so that 2 walls can be knocked out……. Lynn Lancaster Gorges, Historic Textiles Studio, New Bern, NC
