May 28 – June 1, 1997
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Regional Names for Log Cabin — Members share regional nicknames and international variants of the Log Cabin pattern, including ‘Canadian patchwork’ in England.
- Dyeing & Fixing Indigo — A discussion of historical methods for fixing indigo dye, including the traditional (and pungent) use of stale urine. (see the article on indigo fabrics)
- Shaker Quilts & Textile History — Members question whether the Shakers made quilts at all, drawing on textile history references to settle the debate.
- Vendor Etiquette at Quilt Shows — A flea-market encounter sparks a discussion about vendors who talk down browsing customers and how to size up their expertise.
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:52:01 -0400 (EDT) | From: LISA108 [at] delphi [dot] com
Curiously enough, in England Log Cabin is known as “Canadian patchwork,” or
was in the 19th century. Janet Rae’s =Quilts of the British Isles= cites a
1920’s source that claimed that there was a pieced silk sweet bag from the
*17th* century in that pattern, but 1920’s needlework books were often very
poorly researched. I’d be more inclined to believe the early 19th century
origins theory. Alas, this one just might be A Mystery We Quilters Are Not
Meant To Know.
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT) | From: annie <annie [at] mhv [dot] net> (by way of “Kris Driessen, Hickory Hill
Quilts” )
Annie forwarded this to me, I assume because she wanted me to share this
with y’all.
Kris
James L. Barefield wrote:
>
> Oh Annie! I hope we hear more from you! I love your “as I see you” quilt
> idea. I bet you could have people from this group lined up for miles to
> get one of those. I can understand why everyone who gets one loves it. I
> know I would. (No, I’m not hinting.)
>
> Please tell us more – what meaning you attribute to different colors,
> shapes, etc. I think this could be a very interesting thread. Please post
> to the list, I’m sure I’m not the only one who wants to hear more. Welcome
> to the group!!
>
> Janet B. in Michigan jjbare [at] tir [dot] com
>
>
wow, thanks for the welcome. again its visualization. i sit quietly in
my roomful of fabrics just staring at each set of colors. i’m pretty
compulsive so all my fabrics are sorted by colors. when my eyes fall on
the colors that represent that person in my mind i can suddenly see them
“sleeping or curled up” under that color and thats how i know which
colors to choose. i know this sounds kind of strange but quilting for me
is both a mystical and spiritual experience.
as an african-american woman i was taught quilting by the old ones, some
were grand daughters of slaves. they made it clear that quilting was
much more than a hobby. they believed in “love quilts” that would bind a
couple to each other as they slept beneath it and that one should never
cry while making a quilt because if your tears of sadness fell on the
stitches whoever received the quilt would become suddenly saddened or
have bad dreams if they slept beneath the quilt. they taught me about
how slaves often passed underground railroad maps inside quilts made for
different plantations. while the masters would be so proud of their
slaves work the slaves were quietly removing the stitching and taking
out the map, then restitching so nothing was amiss. other quilts were
specifically designed as “map quilts” and the younger slaves were taught
how to “read” them should they ever get the opportunity to escape.
for me, i feel as if i’m carrying on a legacy of those many women for
whom quilting was not only sacred but sometimes a way someone’s life
could be saved (by the maps). there are many books about the importance
of quilting in african-american lives that can explain these things much
better than i. and i’m also learning that each culture has its own
history of quilting. latino quilters, japanese quilters, etc. i’ve tried
to teach young children during black history week about how slaves used
quilting as well as enlighten adults to the cultural differences in
quilting styles.
again thanks for the warm welcome!
annie
“i am my beloved’s and my beloved is mine”
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:55:12 -0400 (EDT) | From: LISA108 [at] delphi [dot] com
And of course, we can’t forget the bluffs overlooking downtown Pittsburgh,
known regionally as Mount Warshington 🙂 You’uns also have to warsh your
clothes after spilling a Klondike on them at a Penguins game…..
Lisa, now of Massachusetts but born a seventh generation Pittsburgher
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:11:57 -0400 (EDT) | From: LISA108 [at] delphi [dot] com
Last night I was channel surfing and saw the first episode of the highly
touted PBS series starring art critic Robert Hughes. This series purports to
be an exploration of American art, but based solely on what I saw last night,
it isn’t worth the film it’s printed on.
Leaving aside the fact that Hughes was just plain wrong a lot of the time
(he used two portraits of a wealthy Boston Cavalier family, obviously rich
and obviously Anglican from their dress, hairstyles and amount of lace on
their clothing, as an example of the new confidence of Puritans by the
1680’s), he really had me howling at how he misused Amish quilts.
The
episode skipped directly from a discussion of the gloominess of the Puritans
to the wonderful abstract qualities of Amish quilts (illustrated by a
Mennonite quilting bee and an interview with an elderly Mennonite quilter).
The Amish quilts were used to illustrate how Pennsylvania folk art came from
the rich German tradition, heretofore exemplified by several shots of 17th
and 18th century frakturs – and never *once* did Hughes bother to mention that
the Amish learned to quilt in the late *19th* century, from neighbors who, at
best, were a generation or two removed from Germany. He also didn’t bother
to make the obvious statement that Amish quilts look about as much like
fraktur as do they like Maxfield Parrish.
The crowning touch to the whole ridiculous sequence was when the camera
segued from several Pennsylvania Old Order Amish quilts to some midwestern
Mennonite quilts, and ended with a Lone Star that could have just as easily
been done by a secular woman any time between 1830 and 1940. I was just
stunned.
The worst of it is that several million non-quilters saw that show last night
and now think that Amish quilts are somehow related to the Quakers (the other
Pennsylvania folk art source, shown by some Edward Hicks paintings and a
modern Quaker meeting). Ack!
Lisa Evans
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:37:59 -0400 (EDT) | From: J
In a message dated 97-05-29 07:47:39 EDT, you write:
<< As I examined the fabs
more closely, I discovered that all of the weft threads are white, and
the warp threads are the color. Thus the effect is a sort of “clouded” >>
Dear Marya and All,
What you are describing is a Chambray. Chambrays begin to appear in quilts
toward the end of the 19 th century. They were frequently used in the first
quarter 20th cen and on in scrap quilts. One can even find “printed”
chambrays in quilts from the early 20th cen.
Regards,
Julia
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:44:33 -0500 | From: gridgees [at] algorithms [dot] com (Merry May)
For Marya re: her question on the “clouded” fabrics in her “new” quilt….
In the 1960s there was a popular fabric with the warp threads of one color
and the weft threads of another… they called it “sharkskin.” I have
pieces of a LOT of different combinations of this type of fabric. It
changes its appearance, depending on how the light hits it, giving it sort
of shimmering appearance at times. This may or may not be what you’re
describing, but it sort of sounds like it. I have one piece that’s “green”
with yellow threads in one direction, and blue threads in the other. I’ve
also had pieces of pink with the white in one direction and a dark pink in
the other, making it a softer pink.
Hope this helps!
Merry in southern N.J.
gridgees [at] algorithms [dot] com
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:42:57 -0400 () | From: Laura Liebler <lieblerl [at] umich [dot] edu>
Regarding using quilts on camping trips (and in other
less-than-optimal conditions):
Some quilts are meant to be heirlooms, and some are not.
Some have historical value, and some do not. Some should
be carefully preserved with acid-free tissue (or the like)
and refolded/aired periodically, and some can be dragged
across the kitchen floor. Not all quilts need to be
treated with reverence and awe.
As an example, I recently found out that my 15-year-old
niece has taken over the use of the wedding quilt I
gave her parents. It was the first (and only!)
full-sized quilt I made, so it has lots of mistakes in
it, and apparently it’s not holding up very well. But
my niece really likes it. Right now she has it on her
bed, but if in a few years she wants to take that
quilt with her to college, and she decides to throw it
on the ground and have a picnic on it with her
friends, and if she has a good time and is happy while
picnicing on that quilt, I won’t mind a bit that the
quilt is down there in the mud. And the quilt
community won’t be missing a thing if that quilt falls
to pieces and doesn’t survive for 150 years.
Laura Liebler
–
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I thought I was th only one who, while driving up the highway, passes a car
> and sees a quilt goin’n camping..and YOU KNOW!!! they aren’t cover’n with
> it..how I want to stop that vehicle, make a citizen’s arrest and confiscate
> the evidence..
>
> Jane
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:40:43 -0400 (EDT) | From: CToczek [at] aol [dot] com
To Audrey and others interested,
I am in NO way well-versed on Shaker textiles, but I can offer one brief
experience I had in relation to them.
While sitting in on a program about dating quilts…offered by our guild in
Georgia…a *Shaker* quilt was offered as an example of a wholecloth quilt.
If I am not mistaken, and my memory may NOT be accurate, we were told that
the Shakers were a plain people, choosing to make simple, wholecloth quilts.
This example was stitched with no batting between the two outer layers,
much as a summer quilt would have been for other folks. Dare I say that we
were told batting was considered an excessive luxury for the Shakers? The
stitching was beautiful, small and even.
Boy, I may be way off base here. If so, maybe this note will spark a more
involved discussion! :]
Carla
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:41:28 -0400 | From: Marion G Ingram <mgingram [at] ix8 [dot] ix [dot] netcom [dot] com>
Is all of the Quilt History in the northern states where the weather is
colder or were there quilters in Florida? It sometimes gets cool enough
to snuggle under a quilt and I know that we have lots of quilters here
now, because I helped start the Sunshine State Quilters Association and
in the first year we had excess of 600 members. I am also looking for an
up to date list of guilds and Merchants in Florida If anyone has such a
list please please send me a copy. TIA
Yours In Stitches.
—
Marion G. Ingram
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:25:39 -0700 | From: Rayna Gillman <RG2 [at] worldnet [dot] att [dot] net>
Marya — the “cloudy” (or almost iridescent, as I view them) fabrics you
describe may be late ’40’s, but more likely early ’50’s. Those aquas,
grays, and bubble-gummy pinks were typical 1950’s colors. I don’t have
any yellows in this particular fabric, but there are some other yellows
that are very green. I have tons of these scraps. My grandmother
worked in a dress factory from the later war years through the early
50’s and made blanket covers (today, known as *duvet* covers) with the
scraps she brought home. I have these blanket covers — plaids,
stripes, some florals, and these un-solid solids you are describing. I
have taken a couple of the tops apart and am re-using the fabrics,
trying to incorporate at least one piece into everything I make.
Rayna Gillman
RG2 [at] worldnet [dot] att [dot] net
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:47:07 -0600 | From: Elizabeth Richards <elizabeth.richards [at] ualberta [dot] ca>
>From the Dan River Dictionary of Textile Terms (great buy $2 Dan River Inc.
1325 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY 10019)
chambray – Popular variety of cotton fabric in relatively square count 80 by
76 – that combines colored warp and white filling (weft) yarns in plain
weave. Name derived from Cambrai, France, where it was first made. May be
carded or combined in stripes, checks, and dobby designs.
(All I need now is a dictionary telling about origins and dates of fabrics.)
–
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:50:06 -0400 (EDT) | From: MiamiQuilt [at] aol [dot] com
To Quilt Digest Friends,
Has anyone seen a Durham, England quilt? Researching…need any
information you can provide.
Thanks,
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:33:04 -0700 | From: “D Gant” <loupots [at] worldnet [dot] att [dot] net>
Hello,
I have been reading this list for a couple of months now and I enjoy it. I
have learned quite a bit. I am trying to find out the best way to get rid
of mildew in a quilt. If anyone has any information, please fill me in!
Thank you!
DG
loupots [at] worldnet [dot] att [dot] net
Date: Thu, 29 May 97 13:19:19 PDT | From: “Debbie Smith” <pdsmith [at] mcn [dot] net>
I have to agree…I love old quilts but there are several quilts I have
made over the years ( especially when starting out ) that I wish would go
away instead of being a constant reminder of my poor skills! I have a very
old quilt that looks as if has never been used and I certainly wouldn’t
start now, but I question whether this was what the maker had in
mind….It’s entire life I am quite sure has been spent in storage. Part of
the appeal of older quilts for me is the love they have recieved…remember
the velveteen rabbit???????????? Are you all going to kill me know or wait
until I am sleeping soundly under one of my grandmother’s quilts!!!!!!
Debbie
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:17:34 -0400 (EDT) | From: LISA108 [at] delphi [dot] com
You’re absolutely right, Diane – the oldest technique for fixing indigo is
to gather about 3-4 gallons of urine, stick it outside, throw in a few ounces
of indigo, wait until the solution turns yellow green, and then throw in your
yarn, cloth, fur or whatever. Smells horrible, of course, but it works. It
also works with woad, which contains dye chemically identical to indigo but in
much smaller concentrations per plant. Once something is dyed with indigo it
pretty much stays dyed, since indigo dyes through a substantive chemical
reaction rather than with the aid of a mordant (the urine is to dissolve the
pigment into solution so it will penetrate the cloth – it’s pretty amazing to
watch a piece of smelly yellow-green cloth come out of the dyebath and see it
turn a lovely blue as it’s exposed to oxygen).
The other oldest mordant is alum in some form, probably followed by materials
like iron and copper (heat the dye and cloth in a metal pot and some of the
metal will leach into the solution and mordant the cloth). Iron black was the
best for centuries, but it’s really corrosive. And of course, there’s always
Turkey red….:)
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:54:38 -0400 | From: cauch [at] cfw [dot] com
Just to add a twist to the discussion of the underground railroad and the
“coded” log cabin quilts…I was interested to run across a pattern today
called “Underground Railroad”, alternating four-patch and triangle squares
in a nine patch block with contrasting setting squares. This from BH&G’s
America’s Heritage Quilts (no affil) and is just one example given for
quilts that were named “[to] preserve the issues and events of the time.”
The one shown was c. 1870, after the War between the States ended.
Christina in the Blue Ridge
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:00:20 -0400 | From: cauch [at] cfw [dot] com
I have a pattern for a Shenandoah Sunburst, a regional quilt, with the
pattern being published by the Woodrow Wilson Birthplace & Museum (no affil)
in Staunton, VA in the Shenandoah Valley. It’s shown in red with a white
background.
MY question is – should I assume this is the traditional colors used for
this quilt? Or would it be acceptable to choose my own, even use “scraps” to
make my quilt? Our family is rooted in the Valley so the historical aspect
is important to us in this quilt where others I wouldn’t bother.
Btw, does anyone know anything about its origins? It’s a repeating sunburst
set in a sawtooth border.
Thanks
Christina in the Blue Ridge
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:51:35 EDT | From: debatqps [at] juno [dot] com
Came across this article and chuckled through the whole thing. Thought
you all might enjoy it too.
Perhaps you are the owner of a fine old quilt or two, a delicate
spreading “Garden Wreath” or a colorful “Rose of Sharon” an elaborate
“Log Cabin” or an old fashioned “Hit or Miss” or “Nine Patch”. They are
all precious and deserve the best possible care.
To prepare such suds, draw half a tubful of warm or lukewarm water, not
hot. Next soften the water, if it happens to be hard, by adding two or
three tablespoons of washing soda or other water softener. Then, after
the water softener has had a few moments to work, add double or triple
the quantitiy of soap you would use for ordinary clothes. We use an
average of three cups to one half tub of water (8 gallons) for our
quilts. Enough soap must be used to build up heavy masses of suds as you
wash. Ideas suds have the consistency of shaving lather.
Your soap should be completely dissolved before washing begins. Use a
packaged soap soluable enough to dissolve in water of moderate temp. or
predissolve a less soluable soap with hot water. Put in your quilt and
let it become thoroughly saturated.
The soil may be worked out in one of
the two following ways:
In one type of washing the wringer does the work. Put it in position at
the side of the tub. Loosen the wringer rolls enough to accomodate the
quilt. But don’t loosen them too much since pressure is desirable. Then
gather one side of the quilt together and feed it evenly through the
wringer; drop it back into the suds and wring again. After you have
repeated the dipping and wringing half a dozen times or so, the quilt
comes clean. The pressure and heavy suds do the trick. Furthermore,
filling and thin spots are not disturbed. Should the quilt be so
exceptionally dirty that the suds become thin, add enough more dissolved
soap to make them heavy and active again.
If you have no wringer, a plunger is the second best thing to use in
removing soil from quilts. Work the suds through the quilt with it for 5
minutes or so. Or else use your open hand in the same way. Neither
action will mat the filling appreciably if you don’t overdo it.
If the edges of the quilt, particularly the top, are more stubbornly
soiled then the rest of it, scrub the with a nailbrush, rubbing in extra
soap as you go. There is no better way to remove difficult soil that has
become ingrained in the material.
There was more about rinsing and drying that I can post if you all are
interested. This was from The Country Home Magazine from April 1938.
Debbie in NJ
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:00:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Quilting Heritage ListServ
To:
I am leaving in just a few minutes for the Canadian Quilt Study Guild
meeting in Montreal. Very excited about the chance to meet Nancy Cameron
Armstrong! (Now, where is my camera?) I’ll post when I come back.
Kris
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:55:57 -0400 (EDT) | From: QRestore [at] aol [dot] com
Debbie;
What a chortle! It’s a *wonder* quilts from our past have survived
the cleaning methods often used . . .Wished I could be around 100 years from
now to witness the condition our quilts will be in . . .should be much
better.
Thanks for sharing, great with my morning cup of coffee!
Victoria Montgomery
QRestore [at] aol [dot] com
Boise, ID . . .85 and gorgeous, sunny days!
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 08:38:42 -0500 (CDT) | From: Phil & Lee Spanner <philspan [at] bucky [dot] win [dot] bright [dot] net>
Hi!
I am working on a blue and white bow tie and wondered if anyone knows of any
history behind the bow tie pattern. When it originated, how it got it’s name
etc. I would love to hear any and all stories you all might have about this
design.
Thanks for your help.
Lee :^)
philspan [at] bucky [dot] win [dot] bright [dot] net
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:55:48 +0100 | From: “Audrey Cameron” <audrey.cameron [at] virgin [dot] net>
There was request for information about Durham Quilts which I sent to the
inquirer, but I thought the group might alos like the information:
Durham, a city in Northern England is used as an incorrect title for a
group of whole-cloth quilts made in the entire surrounding area. They are
better called North Country Quilts to distinquish them from Welsh Quilts
which are also whole cloth quilts but each group is quite different by
location & style of the quilted motifs & designs.
An interesting book is “Amy Emms’ Story of Durham Quilting” by Amy Emms
M.B.E. ( a title given to her by the Queen in 1984 for her quilting ) who
is the only living direct descent of the North Country tradition. Amy was
born in 1904 & still visits quilt shows to demonstrate her work. The last
was 2 weeks ago at Quilts UK. But this book is a fascinating personal story
but not any academic work on the subject.
The Quilters’ Guild which is the national organization of Great Britain
publishes a quarterly called The Quilter. A series of articles in this
magazine were published in 3 parts in Issues 55,56,57 (Summer 1993,Autumn
1993, Winter 1993). It was called North Country Quilts, Their Designs & the
People Who Made Them by Hannelore Braunsberg. There are several other good
references. I could send you the names of, if you wish. I could photocopy
these articles if you wish & send them off in return for a couple of Fat
quarters.
The Quilters Guild’s address is QG, OP 66, Dean Clough, Halifax, England,
HX3 5AX. Any quilt lover can join for �22. per year (about $30.) It might
be more for overseas members.
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:28:12 -0700 (PDT) | From: Jackie Joy <jjoy [at] med [dot] unr [dot] edu>
On Thu, 29 May 1997 debatqps [at] juno [dot] com wrote:
> If you have no wringer, a plunger is the second best thing to use in
> removing soil from quilts. Work the suds through the quilt with it for 5
> minutes or so.
I have found a child with clean feet to be especially effective.
Jackie Joy
jjoy [at] med [dot] unr [dot] edu
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 20:52:07 -0400 (EDT) | From: JOCELYNM [at] delphi [dot] com
On 28-MAY-1997 01:00:37.2 harleman said to JOCELYNM
> Dear QHLers, I am tempted to believe that a point is being missed in
> this discussion of palette, painting, and patterns. It wouldn’t matter
> what colors were used to depict any subject matter; if a recognizable
> quilt pattern were found in a very old painting as the design on a
> floor, in parquetry, or in any other form, of course it wouldn’t have
>to be in a quilt: the pattern would be there for anyone who viewed the
> painting to interpret into any item they wished to make, devise, or
> sew.
Sharon,
But that doesn’t mean it WAS. For example, it would be wrong for an
archeologist to assume, upon examining the contents of a 20th century fabric
store, that all the fabrics were used interchangeably! We have patterns we
consider appropriate for sofas or drapes, and don’t generally make blouses
out of that fabric; nor do we commonly make dresses of calico, even though
that was once the fashion.
The discussion of palettes and painting was an example to try to prove
a point: that just because something was depicted historically, does not
mean it was ever in common usage, or even available. Nor does it mean that a
design depicted in one medium was ever used in another. It COULD have
been…but there are many things that COULD have been done in the Middle
Ages, but most likely weren’t. Dancing the bunny hop, for example…
Jocelyn
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 19:54:21 -0700 | From: Susan G <bravesfan [at] eu [dot] e-universe [dot] com>
I’ve lurked for too long, When I sat in Art History classes I saw many
quilt patterns in the floors, the fabric, and art itself. I never thought
these were actually Renaissance quilts. What I thought was it was my desire
to be quilting in the all to busy day at the University. Now that I have
time to quilt I draw on those classes, paintings and designs for my own
designs and color usage. Joseph Campbell stated patterns in history repeat,
maybe we and our for-mothers repeated what they saw or unconsciously drew
on from their inner memories. Susan
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 07:11:40 -0400 (EDT) | From: KBoxmeyer [at] aol [dot] com
Please post about the rinsing and drying! After all that soap is used,
we need to know how they got it out!
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 23:51:56 -0400 (EDT) | From: JOCELYNM [at] delphi [dot] com
On 28-MAY-1997 21:17:46.5 LISA108 said to JOCELYNM
> I’d be shocked if the Shakers *didn’t* make quilts, as they were very
>practical and adopted modern conveniences like electricity when the
Lisa,
OTOH, there was an era in the mid-1800s (perhaps someone knows the
exact dates????) where blankets became the ‘in’ thing, and quilts were
passe. The Shakers may have been into weaving their own blankets and
bedcoverings rather than piecing quilts…..
Anyone know for sure?
> Finally, I’d like to see something on how European design traditions
>were influenced by settlement houses. The avowed aim of places like
>Hull House was to prepare women and girls for life in America,
>including cooking, dressing and keeping house like Americans. This
>must have included quilting! Help?
Jane Addams of Hull House was into preserving the crafts of the
Europeans. Hull House taught the textile arts of Italy, such as spinning and
lacemaking. I have read both TWENTY YEARS AT HULL-HOUSE and ONE HUNDRED
YEARS AT HULL-HOUSE, and I don’t remember ANY references to quilting. One of
the ‘jobs’ for women in the neighborhood of Hull House was doing piece
sewing….that is, making garments at home and being paid so much per shirt
or blouse. I doubt that many women would take the time away from earning
money by sewing, to quilt.
Jocelyn
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 09:59:33 EDT | From: nikdeb [at] juno [dot] com (Nick R Hofland)
And were there quilts or patterns commonly considered “German” quilts?
I’m new into quilting and have a distinctly German heritage. I
recently went into my “German” cooking mode, and now I would be delighted
to go into my “German” quilting mode!
Deb in Spokane,
where the scent of potato pancakes are wafting from tonight’s supper
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:47:26 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
Why don’t we check with AQSG and see any anyone has done a paper on
SHAKERS..Jane
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 20:18:56 -0400 (EDT) | From: CTislander [at] aol [dot] com
A month or so back, there was a discussion about potholder quilts. I bought
one on a web auction and asked questions about it here on the list. I’ve
decided I do not want to keep the quilt and go through any restoration
process. It is still sitting in the box it came in. I have put the quilt up
for auction on eBay Auction. Kris said I could post a notice here.
The URL is:
http://www.ebay.com/aw/item.cgi?item=syb64551
Christine Thresh in the California Delta
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 22:42:17 -0400 (EDT) | From: CToczek [at] aol [dot] com
Hi everyone!
My parents came to visit this weekend and my mom and I just HAD to visit a
nearby open air flea market and craft village. I had an eye-opening
encounter with the one vendor who offered a couple of tops and c.1870-1900
quilts.
Without giving my still-growing knowledge of quilt history away, I asked the
vendor questions about the items. There was some correct information given
to me regarding potential age and so forth, but other details were missing,
like knowing *indigo* means the navyish blue prints and *double pink* means
the pink prints. Also the pricing seemed somewhat askew. While the two
tops (one a Robbing Peter to Pay Paul) were priced reasonably, the quilts
were priced opposite from how I might have expected.
For instance, less for
what seemed to be the oldest one with the poison green sashing and red print
churn dashes and most for the flower baskets made from 30’s-40’s
feedsacks…and both appeared to have equal number of wear spots. To top
it off the vendor made the comment, “I HAVE to get back the money I put into
these. If I can’t get what I need, I’m just going to cut them all up and
make crafts! You just can’t find good cutters these
days!”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I felt the gray hairs just
popping in! (Only one of the five deserved cutting in my opinion.)
So I get to the question: For those of you with similiar experiences, is
it better in these situations to be quiet and find out what the flea market
vendor knows about quilts? Or let on early in the discussion what I know on
the subject? And, in regard to pricing for vendors (and there may be many
on our list ),is a newer, say 40’s, quilt in pretty colors worth more to the
general public than the older, maybe more valuable, quilt in the sombre
colors of the 1870’s?
Just wondering,
Carla, enjoying time with Mom
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 22:26:24 -0500 (CDT) | From: Nancy Evans <nevans [at] nebnet [dot] net>
At 10:42 PM 5/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
To top
>it off the vendor made the comment, “I HAVE to get back the money I put into
>these. If I can’t get what I need, I’m just going to cut them all up and
>make crafts! You just can’t find good cutters these
>days!”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I felt the gray hairs just
>popping in! (Only one of the five deserved cutting in my opinion.)
>
>So I get to the question: For those of you with similiar experiences, is
>it better in these situations to be quiet and find out what the flea market
>vendor knows about quilts? Or let on early in the discussion what I know on
>the subject? And, in regard to pricing for vendors (and there may be many
>on our list ),is a newer, say 40’s, quilt in pretty colors worth more to the
>general public than the older, maybe more valuable, quilt in the sombre
>colors of the 1870’s?
>
>Just wondering,
>Carla, enjoying time with Mom
>
>
Carla, I think your vendor was baiting you with the remark about cutters. I
doubt they are headed there, as tops, at least! In this area, the ONLY thing
successful as cutters are quilts in bad shape, and even then, the quilt is
sold whole at a cutter price, for the buyer to cut up. How would the vendor
know what
shape/size to cut?? Unless things are VERY different in TX than NE! Or
unless the vendor is into making crafts him/herself?
Trouble with us (quilt lovers) is, even though we try not to let on, we
can’t keep that eager little gleam out of our eyes, and the vendors spot it
in a heartbeat. You are only going to get them down just so far & they stop.
I had the same experience last weekend with a vendor from IA. He knew I
wanted it and he held firm, even though it was MARGINALLY worth what I paid
(although $20 less than he had marked it).
As for what is more valuable – valuable to whom? The general public
recognizes the 30’s & 40’s pieces more readily than they do the 1880’s, etc,
I think. I have been looking at quilts for several years, and am just now
learning what to spot for sure in the 1880’s things. The 30-40’s is what
people grew up with, either on beds at home or at grandma’s house & that is
why they go for those, I think – they just do not recognize the older ones.
But for me – give me that quilt or top with the indigo or maroon, or the
black mourning prints any day!! Those are the ones that light my fire &
REALLY put that little gleam in my eyes! (Although I love the 30’s pastels,
too!!! – just a softie for the oldies, I guess!)
Keep in mind, what I have said is only IMHO!
Nancy Evans – Nebraska Quilter
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:28:52 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
Are you referring to MAURY BYNUM’s page? He seems to have had problems
withthe word go..I’ll see if I can access..Jane
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:26:46 -0600 | From: Jim/Candy Goff <jimg [at] bigsky [dot] net>
is the new URL for “Handquilter”. I’m posting this again as lots of people
have asked. The page has been updated for June with a new tip, notes, etc.
Also, if you have access to the latest “Quilting Today” (issue #61) there
is an article featuring “Timepiece” on page 31. I just got mine yesterday
and was thrilled !
Candy Goff <jimg [at] bigsky [dot] net>
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:39:51 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
I agree with vendors baiting you..#1..they are’nt tht well versed in
EVERYTHING they carry..and secondly..the comment of having to get my money
back I hhave invested..they DON’T buy ANYTHING that requires a high
input..and 3rd..ever hear the comment from a car salesperson..”this is what
we have in it? or “owned by a little old lady in Pasadena..only drove it to
church”.. that’s whny I never wanted to live in Pasadena..too many OLD
PEOPLE..but NO TRAFFIC , except on Sunday..
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:03:53 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
don’t suppose you eer thught of holding a retreat at your mt log cabin??
Jane
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:33:37 -0400 (EDT) | From: Chyral2 [at] aol [dot] com
Hello all-
According to “Shaker Textile Arts,” by Beverly Gordon (Published by
University Press of New England, 1980):
“Very few early (Shaker) quilts remain, and there does not seem to be
anything consistantly Shaker about them, other than the usual fine
workmanship. Single-color linsey-woolsey quilts have been found, as well as
various pieced and patchwork designs. To my knowledge, no nineteenth-century
Shaker applique quilts have been identified. There are at least two Shaker
crazy quilts in existance, both made around the turn of the twentieth
century.”
The author then goes on to discuss specifics of the design of one of these
crazy quilts, the use of Shaker silk scarves to make some of the patches, and
the absence of some of the more “macabre” (author’s word) embroidery motives,
such as spider webs and insects, commonly seen on other crazy quilts. The
same volume later addresses the subject of Shaker fancy work (decorative
objects of the late Victorian domestic arts type, albeit adopted by the
Shakers some twenty years after the initial popularity among non-Shakers) and
the reiterates the fact that not all goods of Shaker manufacture were
intended for Shaker use.
Indeed, it is very important to remember that,
while the Shakers were a religious group who lived in isolated communities,
they were not a “closed” society which disdained contact with the outside
world. A great deal of their time and effort went into the manufacture of
products specifically intended for sale to non-Shaker customers. And because
of the celebate nature of the Shakers, the very survival of the religion
depended on an influx of new members by conversion, and as we all know,
“women teach women. . .”
Therefore, it is “unreasonable” to expect a single or uniform style of Shaker
quilt.
BTW, the correct and proper name for the Shaker religion is “The United
Society of Believers in Christ’s Second Appearing”, but they themselves often
used the term “Shaker”.
Anyone wanting the full citation, please contact me privately.
Cheryl
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 11:45:13 -0700 | From: deb roby <robyda [at] modex [dot] com>
I ahve been basically lurking, but I now have something which I need a little
guidance with…
Several weeks ago I found a wonderful quilt top at a local antique store.
Looks to be made of 30-40s shirting/dress fabrics. It’s diagonally pieced rows
of squares about 8″ wide, separated by a bright pink strip about 4″ wide. THe
pink is a bit coarse and openly woven.
I waffle between finishing the top and leaving it as is. With no history to
it, I would think that it has little historical significance, and someone could
actually use it if it were quilted. But that would turn it from a “find” into
a UFO…
Last Friday, I found 20 wedges from a hand pieced wedding ring. The connector
pieces were not obviously all planned to match..the whole thing is quite
scrappy. The centers look like muslin, but the pieces make me think of feed
sacks. Jane, is there someone in greater Cleveland who could help me identify
these as feedsacks or not? Or someone I could send one or two wedges to who
might help?
I don’t think I will do anything with these wedges except keep them. Maybe
take them out and look at them once in a while…
The pieces look too small to help any conservators out there, or I would offer
to sell them if they would help..
I did find a piece of fabric; a black and white print about 2 yards long and
only 22-23″ wide. Someone had seamed it up the selvadge, so I know how wide
the piece originally was…It’s kinda like a pillow case. If felt like it
might me cotton or rayon, or that cellulose kind of fabric which was available
for some time… The print looks rather 50s-ish. Would anyone be able to use
this?
I admit that since signing on to this board, I always look at the textiles when
in antique stores, garage sales and flea markets…
usually don’t find anything worthwhile, but…
Just realized how long this is getting. Should sign off.
Deb Roby
Chesterland, OHio. Where I might consider building an ark.
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 97 12:43:42 -0500 | From: “Marya Lowe” <mlowe [at] ibm [dot] net>
Many thanks to Terri (who was my roommate at QRS/Albany and became
an instant new friend… I didn’t know her e-mail address till her
return note came thru to me!), Julia, Merry, Rayna and Elizabeth for
their comments and suggestions about what the fabs in my quilt top might
be. As the fabs do not have a shimmering or iridescent look that
seems to be the hallmark of the 40’s-60’s sharkskin and other such
fabs, my guess is that I was wrong to think it was post-Depression
Era. I believe it must be the chambray-like fabs of the PRE-Depression
Era. Based on this suggestion from some of you, I looked up “chambray”
in Brackman’s CITC, and sure enough…
“…lighter color schemes soon after the turn of the century… Some
of the early pastel quilts make good use of chambray fabrics, which
have a dark thread running one way and a white thread running the
other, so the eye reads the fabric as pastel”. (p. 160)
BINGO.
Marya
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 12:44:21 -0500 | From: LAURA SYLER <texas_quilt.co [at] airmail [dot] net>
Nancy Evans wrote:
>
> At 10:42 PM 5/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
> To top
And, in regard to pricing for vendors (and there may be many
> >on our list ),is a newer, say 40’s, quilt in pretty colors worth more to the
> >general public than the older, maybe more valuable, quilt in the sombre
> >colors of the 1870’s?
> >
> >Just wondering,
> >Carla, enjoying time with Mom
> >
> >
> Carla, I think your vendor was baiting you with the remark about cutters. I
> doubt they are headed there, as tops, at least! In this area, the ONLY thing
> successful as cutters are quilts in bad shape, and even then, the quilt is
> sold whole at a cutter price, for the buyer to cut up. How would the vendor
> know what
> shape/size to cut?? Unless things are VERY different in TX than NE! Or
> unless the vendor is into making crafts him/herself?
>
As for what is more valuable – valuable to whom? The general public
> recognizes the 30’s & 40’s pieces more readily than they do the 1880’s, etc,
> learning what to spot for sure in the 1880’s things. The 30-40’s is what
> people grew up with, either on beds at home or at grandma’s house & that is
> why they go for those, I think – they just do not recognize the older one
> Nancy Evans – Nebraska Quilter
Carla & Nancy: I whole heartly agree with what Nancy said about the
public wanting the quilts they remember from their childhood. One thing
that you must remember about Texas is that we do not have many quilts
from the 1800’s unless they were “imported” and most of them after the
1900’s even until recently. Any that did come with settlers to the
Republic were most likely used up before they even came close to being
considered heirlooms. Therefore, most of what us *Native Texans* grew
up with were quilts from the teens, 20’s & 30’s.
Another thing to remember is that what the “public” buys (and even what
the fabric companies have to offer to the quilt shops, with possible
exception to the repro trend) is dictated greatly by current home dec.
and fashion industry trends…Dark 1890’s colors are not what
Architectural Digest is showing these days. Even those of us who read
Country Living on a regular basis notice that colors are lighter and
brighter, thus the popularity of Aunt Gracies and Sharon Newman’s new
line. Not to mention the *lovely* revival of those 70’s colors…
Laura
texas_quilt.co [at] airmail [dot] net
where my yard is in need of as much attention as my thread box I just
overturned!!!
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:05:58 -0400 (EDT) | From: Peeks1234 [at] aol [dot] com
Hello everyone,
I just signed up on QHL today, and am looking forward to learning about
antique quilts. I just bought my first one last week, and think I have found
my new passion! The quilt I bought was a 1930’s GFG in beautiful condition.
I have been quilting for almost 13 years, and live and breathe quilting of
all types. I am a married, (happily for 29 years), mother of 3, and
grandmother of 2.
I have a question for the group. And, being new, I hope it’s not too
redundant of recently past discussions. If it is, please forgive me.
When is it proper to quilt an old top, and when should you *always* leave it
as it is?
Is there some rule I could follow? I keep seeing old tops for sale here and
there, but don’t want to decrease any value by grabbing a quilting needle and
going to town.
Thanks in advance,
Janice – Massachusetts
(Peeks1234 [at] aol [dot] com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 17:15:16 -0400 (EDT) | From: JOCELYNM [at] delphi [dot] com
On 31-MAY-1997 23:04:10.4 CToczek said to JOCELYNM
>experiences, is it better in thessituations to be quiet and find out
>what the flea market vendor knows about quilts? Or let on early in
>the discussion what I know on the subject? And, in regard to pricing
>for vendors (and there may be many on our list ),is a newer, say 40’s,
>quilt in pretty colors worth more to the general public than the
>older, maybe more valuable, quilt in the sombre colors of the 1870’s?
> Just wondering,
Carla,
I’d not voice my expertise, but instead ask questions Columbo-style:
Aren’t older quilts worth more? Gee, it seems such a shame to cut up these
quilts, don’t they have some historical value?
And yes, if the market is to consumers, not historians, I would say
that the ‘pretty’ quilts…the ones that remind people of Grandma’s
house…. would sell better than the older, darker quilts, and would be
priced higher.
Sounds like you could get some bargains here! Maybe ask the vender
about layaway? (‘Don’t cut these up…I want them for quilts…_)
Jocelyn
