January 23 – 27, 2000
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- “Hidden in Plain View” Debate Intensifies — The Underground Railroad quilt-code myth dominates this stretch, with members citing scholarship, personal teaching experience, and press coverage to challenge the book’s claims.
- Antique Singer Sewing Machine Finds — A thrift-store find of a cast-iron Singer prompts members to compare notes on their own vintage Singer 15-91 machines.
- Simply Quilts Fallout — Members discuss host Alex Anderson’s on-air handling of the quilt-code segment and forward viewer feedback to the show’s producers.
- Canadian vs. American Quilt Pattern Names — Members compare regional differences in quilt block naming conventions between Canada and the United States.
- Metropolitan Museum Quilt Exhibit — A member notes a friend’s involvement in an upcoming Metropolitan Museum of Art quilt exhibit. (see the article on quilt museums)
- Researching 1890s Quilts — A member beginning research into quilts from the early 1890s asks the list for good source recommendations.
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:53:02 -0600 | From: Russell-Hill <russhillctesc.net>
Hi All,
Well I saw the show and thought same on the author for getting up there knowng darn well they did not do their homework before publishing their book. you sure could see it in her verbal language and body language. Anyway Alex Anderson has a web site and email addy on the site and you can write to her directly and she does answer her mail personally. the web site is http://www.alexandersonquilts.com/ Debbie in THC
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:09:43 EST | From: AlineMcK
I had a Thrift Store Experiences today one of the old cast-iron Singers in near-pristine condition WITH manual, original can of oil, carrycase &
enough alarming-looking attachments to start my own Inquisition. Yes, I bought it (after going through the adrenal rush before realizing that it wasn’t a Featherweight).
Cleaned it up, oiled it, adjusted tension and zoom, that puppy runs. I’m just wondering if it’s got any monetary value aside from the Whoopie! experience and the reassurance of having a spare machine. It’s a Singer 15-91. (aka the Singer Leadenweight — this thing weighs a ton). Manual is dated 1954. The paint and decals are near-virginal. The case is venerable but structurally sound. I looked around at the vintage machine web sites, but the ’50s seem to be a lost decade.
Obligatory historical note about the machine’s design most of the body looks like the classic pneumatic Gramma’s-machine shape, but the left side cover and the round cover-plate on the back are both a sleek aluminum-ish metal, etched with some jazzy stripes. Was this Singer’s efforts to put tailfins on the Model T to make it look modern?
Aline
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:04:26 EST | From: Palampore
I almost fell on the floor this morning as I picked up the “Boys Life”
(Feb.
2000)my Boy Scout had tossed on the floor. I quickly flipped through it and there were pictures of quilt patterns. There it was——an article on pages 8&9—–“The Secret Language of Freedom”. At the top they had drawings of these patterns crossroads, drunkard’s path, star/evening star/north star, bow tie, sailboat, broken dishes, nine patch, bear’s paw, shoofly, britches, log cabin, monkey wrench, and flying geese. Here’s a quote “Conductors also made use of common quilts (shown above), sometimes hung out a window or along a fence, which actually were coded road signs—plain to read, if you knew how. A Bear’s Paw pattern, for instance, might mean the slaves were to follow bear tracks over the mountains. The four diamonds of the Crossroads pattern told travelers to head for Cleveland, Ohio, a crossroads on the Underground Railroad. Still another, the Drunkard’s Path, advised that the best way forward probably wasn’t straight. Translation Stayoff the roads.”
Yes, this has to be an effort to have new material since February is Black History Month. What a shame they are using erronious new material. Boys Life, 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane, P.O.Box 152079, Irving, TX 75015-2079 or www.bsa.scouting.org Couldn’t locate an email address in the magazine. Must run my 3rd grader to school. Maybe the cold air will lower my blood pressure.
Lynn Lancaster Gorges, New Bern, NC
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:45:52 EST | From: Bethquilt5
Hi everyone!
I’m the managing editor of Great Lakes Quilting and I’d like to thank Val Clarke for her endorsement of our work. The newsletter is a combination of a great events calendar, information about the Michigan State University Museum’s quilt collections and activites, along with profiles of quilters and quilt groups in the Great Lakes. E-mail me at quiltsmuseum.msu.edu for a complimentary copy of the next issue. The next issue will be arriving in mail boxes in April. We have a small but loyal following. Make sure and e-mail to me early so I can order enough when we go to print this spring.
Back to work!
Beth Donaldson
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:53:00 EST | From: Windquilt
If you go to http://www.alexandersonquilts.com, then choose “old site” (she has a new one under construction), you will find a link to send her email. Or, to be direct, her e-mail address is alexandrsnquiltshotmail.com One thing I noticed about the comments made by the author and the niece on the Simply Quilts show was that they kept saying this code was specific to this one family, and that other families may have used different codes.
How on earth was this supposed to work? The story gets weaker with each telling.
Nancy Blake south of Boston
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:19:25 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.comail.airmail.net>
Lynn, That’s almost in my backyard…… That’s the Boy Scout headquarters in Las Colinas. Any troop leaders out there? I’ll do some investigating and see if I can come up with some info on email.
BTW, did any one hear anything out of National Geographic?
Laura
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:27:20 EST | From: Xroadclownaol.com
Well…. I too sew on a Singer 15-91. My operators manual, however, states that it is from the 1940s. I’ve been sewing (quilting) for just three years, but during my childhood i can remember sitting with my grandmother and her “caduca” of sewing machines; making quilts, doll clothes, and her “Sunday
Dress” I thought i was pretty special when my grandmother would let me rotate the wheel to get her running, and when i would hand her squares and triangles to “chain-peice” I guess i was a quilter long before i took my first lesson. That sewing machine ran then, and she continues to run now. I’ve never sewn on a machine that sews as straight as that one. Value priceless as it holds memories as warm and dear to my heart as the quilts i sleep under everynight that were made by my grandmother. melanie in upstate NY where it continues to be cold….but who cares! *************************************************************************** ***
****
Melanie & Frank Towner xroadclownaol.com
989 Auburn Road
Groton, NY 13072
**********************************
“Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly”
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:53:23 EST | From: Midnitelaptop
Thank you, I have forwarded your letter to the producers. Alex
>FromMidnitelaptopaol.com
>To alexandrsnquiltshotmail.com
>Subject underground RR
>Date Mon, 24 Jan 2000 093204 EST
>Hi Alex
>I really love your show and watch it all of the time… I could sense how uneasy you were during the show, on the book, about underground RR quilts.
>All of the stories repeated by the one of the authors and the other guest,were indeed just family legends/fairy tales.with no basis in fact whatsoever. It’s a pity that they keep getting repeated as history.
>I know that you must be pressured by quilt book publishing companies to promote quilting books, also a pressure to keep the show”politically correct” and diverse.But promoting books like this one is really a dis-service to the many wonderful African American quilters. Keep Simply Quilts coming our way.You’re doing a wonderful job.
______________________________________________________
Date: 25/01/2000 121550 Eastern Standard Time | From: alexandrsnquiltshotmail.com (Alex Anderson)
To: Midnitelaptopaol.com
Thank you, I have forwarded your letter to the producers. Alex
>FromMidnitelaptopaol.com
>To alexandrsnquiltshotmail.com
>Subject underground RR
>Date Mon, 24 Jan 2000 093204 EST
>Hi Alex
>I really love your show and watch it all of the time… I could sense how uneasy you were during the show, on the book, about underground RR quilts.
>All of the stories repeated by the one of the authors and the other guest,were indeed just family legends/fairy tales.with no basis in fact whatsoever. It’s a pity that they keep getting repeated as history.
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:24:07 -0500 | From: “J. G. Row” <Judygrowblast.net>
>Subj Re underground RR
>Date 25/01/2000 121550 Eastern Standard Time From alexandrsnquiltshotmail.com (Alex Anderson) To Midnitelaptopaol.com
>Thank you, I have forwarded your letter to the producers. Alex
I sent a message to Alex about the Dobard/Tobin book, and the answer I got was exactly the same 11 words as those above.
Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrowblast.net
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:58:58 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.comail.airmail.net>
Alex has also been inundated by a mix up with Pat Campbells segment that just aired. They included info on Asilomar which is too late to use and Pat is forwarding everything back to her. She does answer her own mail, but you can see how short her replies are..
Laura
At 1124 PM 01/26/2000 -0500, J. G. Row wrote
>>Subj Re underground RR
>>Date 25/01/2000 121550 Eastern Standard Time From alexandrsnquiltshotmail.com (Alex Anderson) To Midnitelaptopaol.com
>>Thank you, I have forwarded your letter to the producers. Alex
>I sent a message to Alex about the Dobard/Tobin book, and the answer I
got
>was exactly the same 11 words as those above.
>Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrowblast.net
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:59:35 EST | From: WileneSmth
STOP IT, PEOPLE !!!
PLEASE STOP IT !!!
the QHLs since Midnitelaptopaol.com asked in digest #21 on jan. 21st “Did anyone see the Simply Quilts show today about the underground RR quilts? Iris” have been so mean-spirited i am right now ashamed to (1) be associated with this list, and (2) to even be associated with the world of quilts at large — a world that i have always thought was filled with the nicest people in the world, but a number of you are proving my experiences of more than 22 years to be flawed.
this is extremely difficult for me to sit here and hunt and peck with one hand since i broke my arm, hand, and wrist nearly 2 weeks ago, but i cannot take seeing your mean words anymore. some of you have attacked and ripped the dobard/tobin book for an entire year now, yet VERY FEW of you have admittedly even bothered to read it !!!
there is a member of this list who personally read the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT that was submitted to the publisher and i plead with her to speak up and let the world know how badly and how unforgivably the PUBLISHER and THEIR editors destroyed that manuscript !!!
if you are going to attack a book on a public forum the way you are attacking this book, then FIRST take the time to KNOW YOUR FACTS. it is DOUBLEDAY and
THEIR EDITORS who NEED to be attacked. according to the information shared with me many months ago, it is THEY who took a well-documented, not to mention thoroughly documented, historically important manuscript and ripped it apart, omitting both huge amounts of documentation as well as huge amounts of underground railroad history never before researched and published, and turned an important HISTORY book into a popular piece of FICTION (at least according to what many of you are calling this book). WHY? for the simple fact that they, the publishers, ONLY wanted a popular book that would sell to the general public. HOW? because they had a signed contract by that point and there was little, if anything, that dobard and tobin could do about it. that’s how the publishing world works, folks. in our world — the quilt world — authors (at least the majority of them) have to underwrite ALL the expenses involved in both researching and illustrating a book, but the ultimate publisher both has, and takes, the right to do as they please with the author’s work, even to the extent of destroying the original work unless the author has the foresight to hire an experienced attorney in the field to protect their rights as the author, and that also takes big bucks. as to simply quilts, i have my own personal story to tell. a couple of years ago, i was taping their shows so i would be sure to see all of them. one day, watching the tape, one of MY OWN vintage photographs was staring me in the face. i searched the tape over and over again for my name, but it was NO
WHERE TO BE FOUND, and, of course, i was NOT paid for it’s use, nor was my permission obtained for its use. needless to say, i was NOT a very happy person at that point. i immediately wrote a hot letter to the hgtv folks in knoxville, tn. to make a long story short, i eventually learned that my photograph had been furnished by the author on that particular show who was promoting one of her books and she had innocently forgotten that (1) i had given her permission to only use the photograph in her book, and (2) she’d even forgotten who owned it. in addition, simply quilts required her to sign a legal paper stating that she was free to share the photographs. the most shocking part of this story, however, is this — to promote her book on that show, she had to pay ALL HER OWN EXPENSES to fly to los angeles plus her hotel and meals, and simply quilts “paid” her for being on the show a t-shirt and a subscription to the hgtv magazine !!! big deal !!! if i’d been her, i would have found a trash can in which to deposit both things in their presence! and it is for that reason that i have not watched that show since then, and intend to never watch it at any time in the future. as to the author? she was, and still is, my friend. i fault simply quilts, and ONLY simply quilts, because they are a commercial enterprise — big time — and their cheap and shoddy exploitation of our hard-working personalities is unforgivable.
this is how the real world out there works, folks, so please, in the future, learn your facts first before you attack something you know nothing about on a public forum. –wilene
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:52:33 EST | From: aol.com
First, I fail to see how protesting inaccurate information, no matter where it is cited, is mean spirited. =Hidden in Plain Sight= seems well on its way to becoming a quilter’s myth along the lines of “quilting was invented by thrifty Colonial housewives.” What is mean about this? By this criterion, everyone who writes to or calls a radio station or TV show to point out inaccuracies is being mean, not public spirited.
Second, I can’t speak for anyone else on this, but *I* have not read =Hidden in Plain Sight= because a) it isn’t in my local library, and b) I refuse to spend that much money on a book based on such a dubious premise that has been creamed by every single reviewer. Is Wilene truly suggesting that the members of this list should *reward* the authors and publishers by buying what appears to be an attempt to provide a backstory to “Sweet Clara and the
Freedom Quilt”?
Third, protesting to Doubleday will not cause them to withdraw the book unless someone on this list has an in with a mainstream publication such as Time, Newsweek, or one of the major dailies. Even then, the authors could cry racism and claim that this is yet another case of whites attempting to suppress African-American history. Books simply are *not* withdrawn without very good reason; even if a few dozen list members send in a petition, Doubleday will keep =Hidden in Plain Sight= in print as long as the book is profitable.
Fourth, I fail to see what HGTV’s payment policies have to do with =Hidden in
Plain Sight=. If their policy is indeed to pay guests with a t-shirt and a magazine subscription, they are (to put it mildly) stingy; if guests are naive enough to travel to California without making sure that their expenses will be covered, they need to get better agents and/or get everything in writing. However, their payment policies are completely irrelevant to their guest selection. The public cannot affect the former. It *can* affect the latter.
Fifth, blaming the publisher and editors for the inaccuracies of =Hidden in Plain Sight= shows a complete lack of understanding of what a publisher actually does. My college roommate and her best friends have been in publishing for nearly twenty years, and neither of them was ever *once* asked to check the accuracy of a book they were editing. The editor is supposed to make the manuscript publishable, *not* check its accuracy. In the case of scientific or historical manuscripts, they are usually reviewed by in-house fact checkers, or sent out to experts in the field. In the case of craft manuscripts, they are checked for grammar and spelling. A publisher does not have time to fact check every book, especially one that purports to do groundbreaking work. Most publishers take the author’s word for it that s/he knows what s/he’s talking about, and that the facts in the book are accurate.
And didn’t Cuesta Benberry, an expert in African-American quilts, give a glowing endorsement?
At this point, well after publication, the only thing the public can do is protest this book whenever it appears and attempt to correct its errors. Writing to Doubleday is useless. And worrying about being mean, and not fair because we didn’t spend the money on an inaccurate book – personally, I’m not going to lose any sleep over this. Nor am I going to buy my very copy of =Hidden in Plain Sight.= I don’t have enough money to buy *accurate* books, let alone this one.
Karen Evans
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:51:02 EST | From: Midnitelaptop
thank you Karen Evans. You said it so well. Freedom of speech to uncover mistakes and falsehoods, represented as history, is still a privilege and a duty.
One of the authors was on the show, and if she had any reservations about selling a book that the publishers had “ruined”. She should have refused to appear on the show or stated that the book she was promoting had been distorted.
I didn’t expect any personal reply from Alex.I just wanted HGTV to know one of the viewer’s opinions.
If someone had not spoken up “publicly”, people would still be smoking cigarettes that have been treated to promote addiction.. The first thing all dictators do, is suppress any opposing opinions.
Iris
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:52:35 -0500 | From: “redloon” <redloon>
If the book was so chopped and much of the documentation omitted because of editing, then the fault still lies with the author’s who should have given back the advance and pulled the book until they found a publisher who would have edited the book correctly. I agree with Karen that the criticism is not mean spirited but rather meant to let people know that some disagree and think that a disservice has been done to the quilting population. It appears that money was the object, again it APPEARS that money was the object. If the authors think the second book will make things “right” they have another thing coming, they have lost their validity. If what Wilene says is accurate then there are three factions that are going to perpetuate this myth, the editors for hacking the book, the authors for not stopping it and the readers for buying it, most who bought it as a curiosity.
Just my opinion.
Lonnie Foley
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:24:15 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.comail.airmail.net>
Well put Karen. I HAVE read the book, and from all the years of teaching quilt making, quilt research, quilt history studies. buying, selling, appraising and just flappin quilts for 30+ years, I was flabbergasted at the assumptions that the authors made admittedly on ONE persons family “stories”. As an appraiser I am constantly presented with a story on the phone about the family quilt that survived the civil war being burried in the red Georgia clay, only to have a lovingly worn 1930’s DWR show up for the appraisal. We’ve talked at length here about oral histories and the romantic notions of quiltmaking that have become “fact”. Lord knows when I started quilting in the ’70’s I was told that quilting was an American invention and patchwork was the evolution of mending those whole cloth bedspreads that came over with the pilgrims <G> REALLY! Even thought there was a woman in one of my last lectures in Central Texas who claims to have read a diary that talks about using quilts as maps for the UGRR, no one else that I have confirred with has ever found any substance to the notion.
Back to the book…….
The real problem here is that in it’s present condition the Dobard book is nothing but a high dollar paper weight. The editor who chopped out whatever valid information might exist should be taken out and shot!!! And this is not a AA quilt issue here, this is about documentation. This whole thing could be about quilts made by WW I French Underground survivors in Europe ……But what really infurriated me was the fact that they were talking about quilts from a time period where actual antique quilts could and SHOULD have been used for the photographies, instead of the pitiful excuses for quilts that were used. I think the photos are what really makes the whole book laughable and totally distroys any of the valid points that they may make. It is obvious in a couple of the photos that they are made with poly cotton fabrics……they are pitiful excuses for quilts from any time period. Admittidly, Dobard made the quilts, sorry guy, and ok, so he’s an art teacher who likes to quilt. Let’s use his quilts in the book for “examples”? Please!!! Most of them are just tops!
If there IS documentation, rather than family stories to substantiate this notion, this book should have never been released in it’s current format…….
And Wilene, no one has been mean spirited. Facts are facts and in its current format the book just doesn’t have any that hold up.
Laura
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:17:20 EST | From: Chyral
In a message dated 01/26/2000 92245 AM Eastern Standard Time, texas_quilt.comail.airmail.net writes
> Even thought there was a woman in one of my last lectures in Central
Texas
> who claims to have read a diary that talks about using quilts as maps
for
> the UGRR, no one else that I have confirred with has ever found any substance to the notion.
> Back to the book…….
> The real problem here is that in it’s present condition the Dobard book
is
> nothing but a high dollar paper weight. The editor who chopped out
whatever
> valid information might exist should be taken out and shot!!! And this
is
> not a AA quilt issue here, this is about documentation.
Exactly so….. I purchased the book, but haven’t read it yet, therefore I’ll try not to address the actual content. However, just from looking through the book, I can see that the issue of research/documantation will be a big issue with me when I *do* read it…. The actual “body” of “Hidden in
Plain View” is less than 126 pages, if you don’t count the numerous forwards, author’s notes, epilogue, timeline, glossary and pictoral appendix….. the bibliography is 15 pages long, though….. and not one source in that long long list is a primary source, i.e. letter, diary, unpublished papers, etc.
(An addition aggravation is that there are no footnotes, either….)
Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, the entire story hinges on this being a code, used extensively along the Underground Railroad ( otherwise, it doesn’t really work, does it? ) and while I’m willing to concede that diaries/letters/daybooks etc. written by escaping slaves are unlikely, such material written by abolitionists and “conductors” would not be out of the question…. or so one would imagine. Oral tradition is a lovely, “romantic”
thing; unfortunately, without something tangible to back it up, it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.
Taking it all with a grain of salt,
Cheryl
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:27:20 EST | From: Xroadclown
Well…. I too sew on a Singer 15-91. My operators manual, however, states that it is from the 1940s. I’ve been sewing (quilting) for just three years, but during my childhood i can remember sitting with my grandmother and her “caduca” of sewing machines; making quilts, doll clothes, and her “Sunday Dress” I thought i was pretty special when my grandmother would let me rotate the wheel to get her running, and when i would hand her squares and triangles to “chain-peice” I guess i was a quilter long before i took my first lesson. That sewing machine ran then, and she continues to run now. I’ve never sewn on a machine that sews as straight as that one. Value priceless as it holds memories as warm and dear to my heart as the quilts i sleep under everynight that were made by my grandmother. melanie in upstate NY where it continues to be cold….but who cares! ****************************************************************************** ****
Melanie & Frank Towner xroadclownaol.com
989 Auburn Road
Groton, NY 13072
**********************************
“Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly”
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:18:29 EST | From: Midnitelaptop
Here’s a website you might want to check out. http://www.laconnerquilts.com/timeline.html iris
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:07:09 -0500 | From: “Nancy Roberts” <robertsnnorwich.net>
is a link to their home page on the following site (it’s almost at the bottom of the page under “Quilt Related Mailing Lists.” While it sounds like they only focus on the Featherweight models, the members of this group have expertise in other Singer models as well. Nancy http://ttsw.com/MainQuiltingPage.html
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:18:51 EST | From: Baglady111
I know that alot of my members in The Feedsack Club read this list, plus the many hundreds who are also members of QHL and the BIZ..Mom Kris has done a absolutely Dynamite job of listing all info on our annual conference come April in Lancaster, Pa, concurrent with Quilters Heritage Celebration..WOW!!! gal!! It is all there and then some..hope all my members/friends on this site come by to see us..And meet MOM KRIS with family in tow… thanx KRIS..dynamic!!!! Jane of the FEEDSACK CLUB..overwhelmed..
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:26:08 -0500 | From: “Nancy Roberts” <robertsnnorwich.net>
Below is a copy of invitation I sent to members of my guild to share thoughts about habits developed as a quilter (both good and bad ones). I’d like to invite those of you on this list to contribute as well. I’ll need your full name and city/state in order to attribute ideas to you (if you’re willing to “fess up” that is.) Hope you’ll want to be a part of this. TIA.
Nancy Roberts (freelance writer)
copy
I’m compiling a list of Quilting good habits and bad habits for an article. I’d like to invite you to contribute to it. Just think about how you quilt and identify the things you do that you know are “right” and you feel good about. Then tell about the things that you know you could/should do better or shouldn’t do at all. Here’s an example Good habit- I take time to clean up the back of a quilt top before layering it with batting and backing.
This keeps loose threads from migrating and showing through behind light fabrics when the quilt is done. Bad habit- I don’t always change thread in the sewing machine to blend nicely with the project. When I’m ready to sew, I just sit down and sew.
Let me know if you have any good/bad habits you’re willing to share (and maybe see in print). Send along your thoughts. Thanks! nancy
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:34:49 -0500 | From: “J. G. Row” <Judygrowblast.net>
DS’s lady love has been instrumental in putting together the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s web site, which just premiered yesterday. I checked it out this morning and it is a real treat.
Go to http://metmuseum.org
I took the director’s tour and scrolled down to the North America section. The first item up for clicking is a wonderful Crazy Quilt. Also take a look at the Worth ballgown, just above it. WOW! I’ll spend hours there when I have more time.
Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrowblast.net
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:57:57 -0800 | From: Elaine Baglo <ellymaequilts>
I have to add my .02 cents worth on this one. First of all, I bought the book ‘Hidden in Plain View’ as soon as Amazon had it available and yes, I’ve read it. Being a Canadian, we never learned the American history and what we know of the Civil War we learned from movies. Still, I thought the book was very well written and basically it’s a verbal account of a family’s stories that have been passed down through the generations. I’m sure that a lot of you have family stories that have been passed down and each time they’re told, they change a little til eventually, they’re sort of right but not totally. Maybe there was a trail of quilts on the Underground Railroad and maybe there wasn’t – but to get this upset over a family’s recollection of stories that have been told through the generations is rather silly. I too, wrote to Alex Anderson, but not to complain about the show (we in Canada won’t see that show til next year sometime) but to express my views and I got a long letter from her, not eleven words. From what I understand, if you have a complaint about the show – don’t send it to Alex, send it to the producers of the show c/o HGTV.
I’m now getting down off my soapbox!
Elaine ellymaequiltshome.com
Victoria, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:08:04 -0500 | From: “Jan Drechsler” <quiltdocsover.net>
Dear Alex,
The myth that quilts were widely used in the underground RR has been presented as fact by the recent guests on your show. It is hearsay with sketchy if any supporting facts. It makes a great romantic story but the recent book has been in the news so much that it is appearing as fact in writing and T.V. No historical substantiation that one would normally expect has been documented.
While I recognize the effort to be politically correct especially during Martin Luther King week, perhaps one or several of the well-respected quilt historians on the Quilt History List group should be given the opportunity to give another viewpoint on the subject.
I am delighted with your usual programs and am grateful that it is available to quilters. Thank you for your wonderful show!
Jan Drechsler in Vermont
Quilt Restoration; Quilting teacher http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bobmills/jan.html
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:41:14 EST | From: aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/00 125832 PM Eastern Standard Time, ellymaequiltshome.com writes
<< Maybe there was a trail of quilts on the Underground Railroad and maybe there wasn’t – but to get this upset over a family’s recollection of stories that have been told through the generations is rather silly. >> The problem is that this is rapidly passing from one family’s tradition to “accepted fact.” And that is far from silly. Future generations of quilt historians will have to spend their time refuting this (and possibly dealing with angry mail from the descendants of either slaves or abolitionists)
rather than researching or teaching.
We have more than enough quaint myths about quilting. This one should be nipped in the bud before we start seeing it in other books.
Karen Evans
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:33:38 -0500 | From: “Jan Drechsler” <quiltdocsover.net>
To: QHLcuenet.com
Subject: Alex’s response
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Now I feel a little bad for writing to Alex. Sounds like she has been getting lots of comments. Her response to my e-mail is at the bottom of my note.
I am just getting my first taste of Vermont’s weather with 18 inches of drifted snow. To create a little excitement, in the midst of yesterday’s blizzard I fell and seriously slashed my wrist and arm on a broken dish.
We quickly put on butterfly bandages, hiked down the driveway which hadn’t been plowed yet, and found my neighbor, a doctor at home. He wrapped my wrist and drove me 9 miles to the E.R., sewed me up and drove me home. Now that is good old-fashioned medical service.
I was mortified because my husband tried 911 and in a very panicy way, told them I had cut my wrist. Thank goodness I walked in with a doctor or I would have had to see a social worker.
So I feel lucky that I didn’t sever any nerves or tendons. That would have disrupted my quilting!
Jan Drechsler
____________________
Dear Jan, Thank you for writing. As you can imagine I have been blasted for the past few days. Personally, I found it to be an interesting families personal oral history. Simply Quilts came across the story from several reputable media sources. I am deeply greeved about the anger and distruption this particular show has caused. Having been a quilter for over twenty years my primary focus is to promote quilting and provide a format for others to enjoy this art. I am saddened by the up roar this has caused. I truly appreciate the respectful way your letter was presented and will pass your idea on to the producers.
Respectfully, Alex
>Dear Alex,
>The myth that quilts were widely used in the underground RR has been presented as fact by the recent guests on your show. It is hearsay with sketchy if any supporting facts. It makes a great romantic story but the recent book has been in the news so much that it is appearing as fact in writing and T.V. No historical substantiation that one would normally expect has been documented.
>While I recognize the effort to be politically correct especially during Martin Luther King week, perhaps one or several of the well-respected
quilt
>historians on the Quilt History List group should be given the opportunity to give another viewpoint on the subject.
>I am delighted with your usual programs and am grateful that it is available to quilters. Thank you for your wonderful show!
>Jan Drechsler in Vermont
>Quilt Restoration; Quilting teacher http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bobmills/jan.html
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:10:07 -0800 | From: Fiona Galvin <fiona101>
Dear All,
Thank you, Karen for your response with regard to Hidden in Plain Sight. I want to add my perspective on the publishing conventions as I understand them.
Wilene, you assert that this book was an important historical text which was gutted for commercial gain by Doubleday Company. First, in the last ten years during which I have been studying history at Wellesley College, American University and UCLA, I have seen almost no seriously regarded history books published by Doubleday. Doubleday is a popular house, and not an academic one. Second, first books by academics are always self-financed, usually as dissertations, and are then picked up by publishers for what is often a tiny amount of money. Books by well-known or successful authors are usually given advances, but even then they are small and rarely pay for the research. Most historians fund that through their university or through grants. But academic historians and those whose work (even if they are not in the academy) is considered scholarly very seldom publish with companies like Doubleday. I don’t say this to be elitist, but those are the facts. If this book was truly a groundbreaking work of historical scholarship, there’s no way any reputable author would allow it to be destroyed by a publishing company. The entire academic community would support the right of the author to protect the scholarly value of the work, as would current contract law. It is true that even academic publishers often require authors to shorten their work and sometimes to re-order it to make it more coherent, but as has been pointed out, that is usually at the suggestion of the anonymous readers (distinguished researchers in the field) who critique the book prior to publication. Those changes, however, do not do things like remove footnotes or sources, because that would completely ruin the entire point of the book.
So I simply do not believe that the authors were unable to protect their work from Doubleday. And since anyone who makes extraordinary claims (in science, history, or any other area of life) is required to present sufficient evidence to prove it’s at least plausible, it doesn’t strike me as mean-spirited for the members of the list to critique it. If the authors are indeed the creators of a serious work, they should expect serious scrutiny.
Fiona Galvin
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:45:26 EST | From: TIGERAMUR
Hello, I’ve been lurking for some time and until now have not posted. I always feel like I’m in the presence of greatness 😉 here and would rather learn than talk.
However, I must speak up, along with everyone else it seems, regarding Wilene’s post.
No one has been mean spirited. I think everyone is quite upset that such a book exists and now our teachers have to spend much of their time correcting a new myth, that in itself should be upsetting to all of us. I have read the book (the library had it). I like to form my own opinions. I found nothing that made any sense in the book. If the authors knew that the publisher was tearing it apart. They had a responsibility to their research and to themselves to pull out and find someone who would not create fiction from what they had discovered as fact. It was not the publishers book it was theirs and they had a responsibility to that work and research. I do not believe that anyone has been mean. I feel there is a great amount of concern and everyone needs to work to make sure that history is accurate.
History gets distorted if people do not speak up. Remember when there were no women in the history books? I was taught in my history class that Custer was a great man (OOPS!!).
I have a young son who is interested in quilting. I want him to lean the facts, true facts, of it’s incredible history. Authors who publish history should concentrate on that history and not on money and contracts. I love quilting, I love the tradition it represents. It is a responsibility of each and every quilter to maintain factual history so our children can learn the real truth. I do not see anything mean spirited about that.
Katie in Michigan
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:42:42 EST | From: aol.com
Fiona’s right about Doubleday – this is *not* an academic or scholarly press.
It sponsors several popular book clubs (including the Mystery and Science Fiction Book Clubs) and publishes mainly fiction.
In fact, Doubleday was responsible for the worst “science” book of the 1950s,
Immanuel Velikovsky’s =Worlds in Collision=. This absurd book claimed that Venus was a comet disgorged from Jupiter, and that Venus’s flight from Jupiter past Earth caused the Earth to stop moving when Joshua commanded the sun to stop during the Biblical conquest of Canaan! Velikovsky also claimed that the Israelites in Sinai dined on manna made from “hydrocarbons” from Venus’s comet tail (he meant “carbohydrates”), and generally redated and retranslated every ancient text he could to make his theory make sense. The book was a bestseller despite literally hundreds of scientific and scholarly errors. You see, Doubleday never bothered to have either a scientist or a Biblical historian review the manuscript – they just thought it was a good book because Velikovsky had a smooth prose style. And even though the errors were pointed out repeatedly, the book remained in print for decades.
So, this seemingly is not the first time Doubleday has published a factually weak book. The more things change….
Karen Evans
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:04:50 EST | From: Bethquilt5
Karen, If you read the book, you might get the title correct, it’s not Hidden in Plain Sight.
Laura, “The editor who chopped out whatever valid information might exist should be taken out and shot!!!” Hmmm…..sounds a little mean spirited to me.
and…
“I HAVE read the book, and from all the years of teaching quilt making, quilt research, quilt history studies, buying, selling, appraising and just flappin quilts for 30+ years….” As a person who works with quilts in a museum, we never flap! We gently support our textiles! Quilters and antique quilt lovers have been the worst volunteers to persuade to gently support the quilts, not flap and fold them.
The point being how easy it is to be harsh and unforgiving. Maybe we can look at this as an opportunity to pursue better research and open dialogue on a topic that is proving to be of a great deal of interest. How about using this publicity to reach out to people to keep an eye out for primary sources of information about the underground railroad. A little education about what to look for may bring up documents or materials that will either support or refute the claims.
I have bought and read the book, heard Dr. Dobbard lecture in person, and seen his quilts. My opinion he never said there were quilts to support this theory. He tried to link the oral story of the lady in the market to the research he had done that included messages in spirituals and African art traditions. It was presented as a memory device more than a fact. Did he do a credible job? Not particularly. Was what he said harmful? Not really, because he presented it as a theory and a possibility, not a fact. Did those involved in the book (authors, publishers, editors, etc.) romanticize the presentation? Yes, definitely. At times you could see the camera panning back and a gentle glow suffusing the manuscript in a perfect made for TV production. The part I find the most irritating is the secrecy to which this is all presented and especially the baiting for part two of the code to be published soon! All a little to commercial for me.
Anyway its all a little overblown for me and I’m going to sign off now to spend some time looking at eBay!
Beth Donaldson
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:19:32 -0800 | From: “Robins-Morris, Laura A” <lrobinsfhcrc.org>
For what it’s worth, this is what a friend of mine had to say about the show. (First, let me explain that she knew nothing about the controversy or the book or anything before hand.) When she saw the show she took it as the story of one family on one plantation and she thought it didn’t sound very plausible. She actually thought it was a boring show <g> . She basically dismissed it and almost forgot about it until she heard me talking about this list discussion.
Now I know this has gotten too much press elsewhere and has made it into other publications and that’s why folks are rightly concerned. But it’s nice to know that not everyone is quoting it as gospel, and some people will think for themselves.
Laura in Seattle
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:49:57 -0500 | From: “David Robinson” <sgunningpassport.ca>
I read with interest Elaine’s general comment about Canadians not studying American History and what “what we know of the Civil War we learned from movies.” A point of clarification…Canada is a large country and Canadians have vastly different experiences in terms of their learning opportunities. Born and raised in southwestern Ontario, American History was a mandatory history course in either grade 11 or 12, back in the early 1980’s. I studied American history both in high school and in the university that I attended in Ottawa. Having lived close to both the Windsor/Detroit border and the Fort Erie/Buffalo border, I am quite familiar with some aspects of American politics and current affairs as well as historical matters. Many of my American friends are embarassed by the fact that the Canadians they know always seem to be much more familiar with American history and politics than the other way around. Of course, this is anecdotal and I do not intend to generalize. What I did want to do is offer another perspective on Canadians’ knowledge of American history.
Sande in Toronto
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:59:55 -0800 (PST) | From: Kris Driessen <krisdriessen>
There have been a number of interesting posts on “Hidden in Plain View”. My own feeling is that this is an good book for quilt historians to have in their collection. Let’s face it, this book DOES affect how the general public percieves quilts, and particularly antique quilts and their place in history. Right or wrong, this book *has* made an impact.
If I could make a suggestion – maybe someone who has experience in researching original source material could contact Simply Quilts and offer to do a program on how historical quilt books are documented? NOT to trash HIPV, but just to explain to the average quilter what we look for. An offshoot of this idea might be for someone to go on with an antique quilt and show people how to look for the details that tell the story of a quilt. Like Laura did in her Quilt Detective show.
I know Simply Quilts does not pay anything, not even transportation, so someone already in CA would be the best.
Kris
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:24:44 -0500 | From: “pepper cory” <pepcorybmd.clis.com>
Just a bynote on the Canadian view of quilt patterns Don’t call the classic quilt pattern ‘Burgoyne Surrounded’ when you’re in Canada. My Canadian students corrected me and called it ‘Homespun.’ They also didn’t take to the term Second War of Independence (1812); they referred to it as the War of American Aggression and by the way, Canada won! I loved teaching in Canada as the students were very quick to pick up tips and had a charming self-deprecating sense of humor. Here’s to Quilt Unity!
Pepper Cory
—– Original Message —–
From: “David Robinson” <sgunningpassport.ca>
To: <
Sent Thursday, January 27, 2000 1149 AM
Subject: QHL Canadians and American History
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:06:48 -0500 | From: “Phyllis Twigg” <ptwiggradix.net>
In order to research some quilts from the early 1890’s, I need to find some good sources (books, internet sites, etc.) that would tell me the popular trends and personalities in the culture of that time period. Any suggestions?
Harrison and Cleveland were the presidents, of course.
Thanks!
Phyllis
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:14:17 EST | From: Qltldy10
… I do research for a living. That is, I read research, and then get to travel and tell others about what I read, and I get paid well for this!
Now,
I certainly did not see The Book (emphasis mine) as research, but I could see the potential. that’s my bias showing. Meaning, the person who did the original interviews (see, I can’t rmember her name and I’m too lazy to go downstairs) has the potential for a piece of qualitative, although not primary source, research. My guess is that they did try to publish it as so, but no academic publisher wanted it- so they went to Doubleday (and probably not the first they went to- been there, done that) and got told along the way to spice it up and add sex if they could -lol- and make it into a grocery-store kinda book. Anyhow, it sold. Back to the middle here- so which of you historians is going to invite the person who did the interviews and took notes to publish them or at the very least report on the original story as research??? Storytelling (qualitative research) counts, too. It has rules, though, and I bet the person who took the interviews would be proud that historians want to hear the story as told.
Beth in Maine
