December 16 - 27, 2000 - QuiltHistory

Quilt Dating, Quiltmaking Techniques & Construction, Restoration & Conservation

These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.

Primary topics of this QHL Digest:

Boutis / French Provincial Candlewicking — A major, multi-day thread on the boutis technique (a French corded/stuffed whitework style), how it differs from candlewicking, book recommendations, and members’ own boutis pieces.
Cat Urine and Quilt Cleaning Emergencies — Detailed advice on treating a quilt urinated on by a cat, plus general emergency cleaning guidance for antique textiles. (see the article on cleaning antique quilts)
Amish and Amish-Style Quilt Authenticity — Members debate how to distinguish an authentic Amish-made quilt from an Amish-style quilt made for the tourist market, and discuss what “being Amish” means.
Civil War-Era Reproduction Fabric Debate — A discussion (with some disagreement over tone) about whether reproduction Civil War-era fabrics accurately reflect period cloth and dyes. (see the article on a Civil War quilt)
Talbot County Textile Collection Finds — A museum volunteer shares discoveries cataloguing the Talbot County Historical Society’s textile collection, including a trapunto-decorated linen cap.
1901 Pan-American Exposition Redwork — Interest in redwork quilt patterns commemorating the 1901 Pan-American Exposition. (see the article on redwork and outline embroidery)
Sterling Silver and Antique Thimbles — A member describes thimbles in their collection, prompting broader thimble-collecting discussion.

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:34:16 -0500 | From: List Mom <qrs@>

>I have been unsuccessful at posting consistently! Trying one more time to
>get through. The nice woman at Michigan State forwarded my note once to
>post. Here in Rochester, NY, we are still working on the project to document
>the 250-300 quilts in the Rochester Museum and Science Center collection. We
>included 16 of these beauties in an extremely well-received adjunct to our
>bi-annual quilt show. We have now finished the documentation process for
>about 60 of these quilts and have vaccuumed about 45 so far and rehoused many
>on rollers and in huge acid free boxes.

The money used for this has been
>raised by the Genessee Valley Quilt Club.
>
>Each day we work on these, we find something new — undiscovered initials and
>quilts with the same fabrics. Many of use have developed a “sixth sense”
>about something being amiss with a particular quilt which after careful
>examination we find has been repaired or completed at a different time. As
>some of these repairs are a hundred years old, we are constantly challenged!
>
>We are also taking digital photos of all the quilts which will at some time
>be available on the museum website. The project is being cited as a real
>synergistic relationship between the museum and the club which will be used
>as a model for other documentation projects involving community efforts here.
>
>Again, I hope this one gets through as I would really like to participate in
>discussions.
>
>Beth Brandkamp

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:06:28 EST | From: BukiQuiltr@

I seem to lurk forever until I need help!
A lady called this morning and was in a panic, during the night her quilt
rack had broken and the quilt she had on it lay on the floor. The quilt was
a Morning Glory her mother had made in the early 1900’s. Her cat, which she
says has never been prone to doing things like this, had urinated on the
quilt and went through layers as they were in a heap on the floor so there is
not just one spot. What is her best recourse? I know this has been posted
before but I can’t remember what was said.
Unfortunately, it is winter and you can’t dry it outdoors. I told her the
usual method that is suggested for washing an antique quilt.
She lives in an older home, so her laundry tubs are definitely out of the
question. She can use her bathtub but drying is a problem (again it’s winter
here with about 10 ft. of snow on the ground and more coming!). Can I give
her anymore suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Dee Pitthan
Dee’s Custom Quilting and Restoration
In Rockford, IL. Where you can’t even make a snowman out of this snow it is
so fine!

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:20:36 -0800 | From: Margaret Geiss-Mooney <mgmooney@>

Hi all! Just got the post from Dee regarding the quilt that was urinated on by the cat in the middle of winter. She will get great results if she can treat the quilt before the cat urine dries. If the lady has a large capacity washing machine that has never had fabric softener used in it, with at least good to excellent water quality, the quilt is not a queen/king size and she is pretty sure that all of the colours are fast and there are no damaged areas already, she can use the washing machine as a soaking basin: fill up the machine with lukewarm water about 1/2 way; then place quilt in as a loosely as possible; continue to fill up with lukewarm water. Do NOT let the machine agitate – just soak at least

20 minutes. Then advance the cycle of the washing machine (with NO agitation) to the drain portion, stopping the machine before it goes into high speed spin mode. Then repeat the soaking in lukewarm water (you don’t have to remove the quilt during the fill up). While it is soaking, lay out a layer of plastic sheeting (or even large plastic trash bags) on top of a bed or out on the floor and then cover with clean and dry toweling or sheeting. The quilt cannot hang off any of the edges if you use a bed. After the quilt has gone thru the last drain portion, the quilt can be carefully removed (it still will be heavy and is at its most fragile state while wet) and laid out on top of the toweling/sheeting. Since most of our homes are heated during the Winter (and bone dry to boot), drying is not a problem especially if you run a fan in the same room (not blowing straight on to the quilt) to increase air circulation. Don’t ever put it in the dryer. Don’t forget to lock up the animals in the household if it is laid out on the floor to dry. And don’t put the quilt away until it is completely dry (or else mold/mildew will become a problem). Of course, the ideal is to complete wash fastness testing first, washing the quilt if it passes in deionized water completely flat, rinsing with deionized water and allowing the quilt to dry flat. Good luck!

Meg Geiss-Mooney

mgmooney [at] home [dot] net

Quilt Conservator in private practice

Professional Associate, American Institute for Conservation

Petaluma, California

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:08:58 -0500 | From: Alan Kelchner <quiltfix@>

When in an emergency situation, hang the washed quilt on the shower curtain rod, unless it just absolutely won’t take it.

— Alan Kelchner

Skitzofrenya Quiltworks

http://skitzofrenya.artistnation.com

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:58:19 -0500 (EST) | From: Teri Klassen <teresak@>

Beth in Rochester NY, your message got through! documenting the quilts in the museum is a fine project. have you considered publishing a book with photos and the information you’re gathering? let us know if you do. Teri in Indiana

Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:05:29 -0500 | From: “John Cawley” <cawley@>

I’m helping to catalogue the textile collection of the Talbot County

Historical Society and wonderful things keep turning up. The other day, along with a nearly perfect quilted silk petticoat (copper colored silk with a wool batt and lined with a brown cotton print) and a curtain panel which had been made from a strip of a wholecloth toile quilt, I found a linen cap (size looked like it would fit a child of 5 or 6). The back of the cap was decorated with the most exquisite trapunto: channels filled with cording forming flowers and abstract designs. Does a mid-18th century date sound right? What is this kind of decoration properly called? I’ve been told often in the last few years that what we used to call trapunto is properly called stuffed work, but this isn’t stuffed; it’s given dimension only by the cord.

The geese are back in their tens of thousands to winter on the Eastern

Shore. I wish you all Merry Christmas.

Cinda

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:41:39 EST | From: KRONEIL@

What you are describing might be the French Provincial method known as

Bouti (sp). I have been corresponding with a shop in France that is trying to get some books on the subject. This technique was featured on Georgia

Bonesteel’s “Lap Quilting” series last year. The methods sounds fascinating, but I’ve only seen it done by hand, I’m sure it could be done easily by machine.

Patt in Olympia

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:33:10 EST | From: BukiQuiltr@

Just wanted to come out of my lurkdom again and thank everyone who responded to my request for help for a customer to remove a pet stain. She is very grateful as well. I will let you know how things turn out.

I have studied a lot but there are people with far more experience than I on this list and I enjoy reading all the posts.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Dee Pitthan

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:36:45 -0800 | From: Diane Eardley < eardley@>

I apologize if this message is somewhat out of context, but the original message is on my office computer, and I was too busy finishing the grading for my microbiology class to read it. There is a new book entitled ‘Pique de Provence’ that was reviewed in the New York Times last Aug. 25. This book has essays on Provencal quilts and shows the collection of Andre-Jean

Carbanel, a french collector and olive farmer from Nimes. Many of the quilts are boutis and most of the collection are large white-on-white quilts with exquisite hand quilting. Boutis are small white-on-white quilts with minutely detailed quilting motifs. If any of you are fortunate enough to travel to Paris in the near future, the collection is showing at the Toile de Jouy Museum in Jouy-en-Josas, a small town near Versailles outside Paris. Back to the book… my friend traveled to Paris in Oct. and saw the book which she says is wonderful, written in french, and too heavy to bring back. She says that she is sure the book will be published in the

US in english in the next couple of years (if I can wait that long!) The book is available from Adlers, a book shop in Chicago and costs about $70.

I may have to refresh my high school french!

Diane

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:30:11 +0200 | From: Ady Hirsch <adamroni@>

>Hi Cinda This sounds much like the Frnch technique for making boutis. Two layerd of fabric are basted together, the design is quilted, and the (relatively narrow) spaces between the quilting lines are filled with cotton threads, inserted with an extra-long needle. The results are breathtakingly beautiful. Larger areas are stuffed this way two, with the needle inserted again and again until the required area is properly filled. Quilts made this way are fully reversible. The technique was used for clothig (petticoats, quilted waistcoats (for a superb 18th century example see Catherine Berenson’s Quilts of Provence, p. 52 – an excellent reference book, BTW), baby bibs etc. The technique is caled boutis, and the English equivalent should be, I think, corded work. Hope this helps Ady in Israel

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:04:57 -0500 | From: Newbie Richardson <pastcrafts@>

pastcrafts [at] erols [dot] com

Cinda, Sounds like you are working on the “mother lode!” What you probably have is a white work cap. They were as common as panty hose is today in the first half of the 19th c. “Whitework” is the catch all phrase for any white embroidery techniques on linen or cotton.

You are right, my dictionary calls “cording” trapunto. Stuffed work is, in fact, stuffed. Terminology changes with use. As this technique fell out of favor after the mid-19th century (in clothing), there are no references in my c. 1880 needlework dictionaries!

Does anyone on the list have access to the OED (Oxford English

Dictionary) That should tell us the time frame of the term use.

May you all have blessed holidays. I just love all the scholarship on this list!

Newbie Past Crafts Studios

Alexandria, Va.

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:17:39 -0800 | From: Chris Anacker < chrisa@>

I thought I’d add a little info on the French version of “Le Boutis”

by Solange Kergreis. I would recommend it to anyone interested in learning to make a corded and or stuffed whitework piece, as the how to pictures are easy to figure out, and there are many patterns, full size. There is even a paper pull out of patterns. There are border patterns, lnitial letters, (two as examples), a lampshade pattern, a bib, and lots of small wall hangings are shown completed. The pictures are well done and are very clear to copy from. The section on history, is best if it can be read (which I was able to wade through), but the pictures of the old ones are exquisite.

Hello Patt and everyone,

I was lucky enough to find (where, I don’t remember) an English translation of Solange Kergreis’ book “Le boutis technique et modeles originaux.”

The English translation was published by Kangaroo Press in Australia (ISBN

0864178840), and my copy has a “Quilter’s Resource Inc.” label on the back.

If you go to www. Amazon.fr (in France, in French) and search on the word “Boutis”, you will see several books on the subject that are available through Amazon. Kergreis’ books appear to be avaliable in French, but not the English translation. (I am not affiliated with Amazon, Kangaroo Press or

Solange Kergreis.)

I do like the book, it is about 50 pages and filled with wonderful photographs, some history, and several designs. Of course, Kathryn

Berenson’s excellent book is probably more readily available (in English).

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Nancy Nancy Blake south of Boston “Don’t just live the length of your life, live the width of it as well.”

Diane Ackerman

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:29:34 -0800 | From: Chris Anacker < chrisa@>

I sent the Boutis info before meaning to. Just wanted to add that mine also says Quilter’s resource, TM. I bought it from a quilt shop on the east coast in 1997, so I hestiate to give you their name, less they be deluged with requests long after it has left their shelf. The ISBN for this version is

2-906962-57-0, published 1993 by Carpenter in Paris.

I hope all of you have a very Merry Holiday Season, and drive carefully, those of you in the snow country-we need your imput next year!! This list has been such a wonderful addition to my learning, networking and sense of connection with other enthusiasts. I thank you all so much for being here and sharing your knowledge.

Kim Wulfert Ojai CA where it has been in the mid 70’s all week and crystal clear air.

it looks fake!

For info on The Quilter’s Journey Through New England (quilt history)Tours,

July and August 2001, email me privately

—– Original Message —–

From: <chrisa [at] jetlink [dot] net>

To: < >

Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: Books on Boutis (was terminology)

I thought I’d add a little info on the French version of “Le Boutis”

Hello Patt and everyone,

I was lucky enough to find (where, I don’t remember) an English translation of Solange Kergreis’ book “Le boutis technique et modeles originaux.”

The English translation was published by Kangaroo Press in Australia (ISBN

0864178840), and my copy has a “Quilter’s Resource Inc.” label on the back.

Solange Kergreis.)

I do like the book, it is about 50 pages and filled with wonderful photographs, some history, and several designs. Of course, Kathryn

Berenson’s excellent book is probably more readily available (in English).

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Nancy Nancy Blake south of Boston “Don’t just live the length of your life, live the width of it as well.”

Diane Ackerman

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:01:55 EST | From: Windquilt@

Hello Patt and everyone,

I was lucky enough to find (where, I don’t remember) an English translation of Solange Kergreis’ book “Le boutis technique et modeles originaux.”

The English translation was published by Kangaroo Press in Australia (ISBN

0864178840), and my copy has a “Quilter’s Resource Inc.” label on the back.

Solange Kergreis.)

I do like the book, it is about 50 pages and filled with wonderful photographs, some history, and several designs. Of course, Kathryn

Berenson’s excellent book is probably more readily available (in English).

Happy Holidays to everyone!

Nancy Nancy Blake south of Boston “Don’t just live the length of your life, live the width of it as well.”

Diane Ackerman

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:01:20 EST | From: QuiltFixer@

For those of you that were interested in the 1901 Pan American Redwork Quilt, my article in the Quilter’s Newsletter is now available. Quilters Newsletter did a very fine job of presenting the information that I wrote and the many pictures and artifacts. As an addition bit of information, the novel “City of Light” by Lauren Belfer has just been published in time for the Pan American Centennial. This is a work of fiction, but the author has done a great job of research about Buffalo, Niagara, and the way women lived in those cities in 1901. I enjoyed reading it, especially after the hours and hours of research I did for the article. Happy Holidays to one and all. Thanks for the whole year of sharing and caring. Toni Baumgard The Redwork Lady redworkldy@ www.redworklady.com

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:25:13 -0500 | From: “J. G. Row” < Judygrow@>

Newbie, you did a terrible thing to me when you asked if anyone could check in the OED. I have an Oxford Universal English Dictionary from 1937 in 10 volumes. I can never look anything up without spending hours and hours with the book(s) . My tree is only half dressed and I have gifts still sitting unwrapped on the dining room table, and here I am having a merry old time with my dictionary.

Anyway, there is no listing in any of these volumes for trapunto, whitework, or stuffed work. The omission might tell us something, as you said about your 1880’s needlwork dictionaries.

Judy in Ringoes, NJ

judygrow [at] rcn [dot] com

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:48:48 +0200 | From: Ady Hirsch < adamroni@>

Hi, Here’s a relatively up-to-date list of books on Boutis and French quilting:

Berenson, Kathryn – Quilts of Provence, The Art and Craft of French

Quiltmaking, Henry Holt and Company Inc., New York 1996 ISBN 0-8050-4639-9

Pique de Provence – Couvertures et joupons imprimes de la collection

Andre-Jean Cabanel XVIII-XIX siecles, Edisud, Aix-en-Provence, 2000 (The publisher has a web site – www.edisud.com) – the book is breathtakingly beautiful. ISBN 2-7449-0158-X

Nicolle, Francine – Boutis des villes Boutis des champs, Edisud 1999 – This book was given me by my friend Daniele Baumgarten, also a member of QHL (and a fantastic quilter), and it is absolutely incredible. Called City boutis, country boutis, it has wonderful photography, close-ups of quilts and quilting motifs, and the last chapter contains instructions for making a boutis. ISBN 2-7449-0120-2

Nicole, Francine – Le boutis dans le trousseau, Edisud – a companion to the above book, it contains full size patterns for a wedding boutis (courtepointe de mariage) and a small petasson – a small boutis used to protect the mother’s dress from baby spit etc. 🙂

Gaussen, Andree – Le manuel de boutis de Madame Gaussen – la bibliotheque des metiers – this book, by the Amy Emms of French boutis quilting, has thorough instructions for making boutis as well as authentic patterns taken in oart from the Cabanel collection.

Gaussen, Andree – 102 Motifs de Boutis tires des Collections privees

Provencales – La Bibliotheque des Metiers. This (also a present from

Daniele) is a collection of patterns adapted by madame Gaussen, and a companion to the previous book. Exquisite. Loose leaves in a cardboard binder, very convenient.

Kergreis Solange – le Boutis, technique et modeles originaux, ISBN

2-906962-57-0 – very god, although the patterns are modern adaptations.

All of these books, with the exception of Kathryn Berenson’s book are in

French, but are well worth the effort of reading them. Some of them books are available through Brentano’s in Paris. I also think

www.quiltcreations.com (the French on-line quilt store) offered Pique de

Provence a while ago – worth checking.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to everyone,

Ady in Israel

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:01:53 -0000 | From: “Sally Ward” < Sally.D.Ward@>

I’ve just been checking in a newly acquired second hand book which I don’t yet know very well <G> called ‘English Domestic Needlework 1660-1866’ by Therle Hughes. I can’t find a date on the book, but its old enough to be a bit smelly <G> There are a lot of references to ‘white work’ (two words) but all refer to embroidery of white on white linen or lace. Some of the work was raised by using the stumpwork technique, or by using cutwork or drawn threads, but I can’t find any reference to cording or stuffing. We just don’t seem to use the generic term ‘whitework’ in relation to corded or stuffed work as you do in the US. Interestingly, the book doesn’t mention our more familiar term ‘wholecloth’ either, so maybe that term is a more modern acquisition. ‘Stuffed work’ is not in the index at all, and nor is ‘Trapunto’. ‘Cordwork’ – ‘applied’ refers to appliques cord in a brocade pattern on bed hangings from 1567 ‘Cordwork’ – ‘in quilting’ is the best reference, and ‘Italian Quilting’ in the index leads to the same page: ‘Sometimes instead of the usual interlining there was soft cord or candlewick to create ridges between close parallel lines of stitching. This was long called Italian quilting: the cord was either tacked in shape to the lower fabric before the top was stitched over it, or else poked and pulled between the rows of stitching when the quilt was made. It is particularly effective when worked entirely in white linen and was popular in the 18th century.’ Sally Ward Yorkshire, UK

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:46:13 EST | From: Hazelmacc@

In today’s The Washington Post, (www.washingtonpost.com) in the Style section on page C6, is a column “Tell Me About It” -Advice for the Under-30

Crowd.

I often look at the cartoon as l am a cartoon nut and this morning really caught my eye and my curiosity. This one is hillarous yet belittling.

Five men depicted as Amish are situated around a table and on the table is a lady stitching a quilt. l had to read through to the third inquiry to see how the cartoon related: A wife was upset because her husband had promised he would not go to bachelor party’s where they had strippers. She trusted him but he came home from one in Philadelphia and reported back that yes, indeed there was a stripper at this party. Wife is furious. Carolyn Hax, editor of column advises wife to lighten up. l looked back at the cartoon and try to imagine the quilt to be a strippy but alas ’tis just squares. The cartoonist missed one there.

Hazel in cold No. Va.

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 00 18:12:41 -0600 | From: woodford < haq@>

How does boutis differ from candlewick work?

Thanks,

Barbara

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:11:41 +0100 | From: Daniele Seyrig Baumgarten <d.seyrig@>

> The technique is called boutis,

Hi , Yes and it really is the name of the needle used to do it wich gave its name to the technique .there are quite a few books on the matter .I do not have time right now with Xmas coming up , half our electricity installation having blown up and my departure to Panama on Tuesday to give you a list

.But i will be home by the 14th of january so please remind me if you are interested and i will let you know .May be Ady can send you the number of the last Magic Patch on the subject It should be available from Brentano’s the US bookshop in Paris .It is very good , the pictures showing how to do it are great and the patterns FANTASTIC ! Boutis is making a wonderful come back here in France .

Two exhibition really worth seeing if you are in Paris .Musee Galliera “Le coton et la Mode ” until March 11 (free on sunday from 10 – 13 ) with lots of indiennes ,two boutis , a small patchwork from the Netherlands and much more .a treat !

in Jouy en Josas at the museum they are now showing about one third of the items wich were shown in Mulhouse last year (Provencal quilted bedcovers and petticoats .The petticoats are in the Museum itself not in the exhibition hall ) On until April 22nd .lots of books on boutis in the entrance hall .

See you next year and hope you all have a wonderful holiday

Daniele in Paris

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 21:01:01 -0500 | From: “John Cawley” <cawleygoeaston.net>

charset=”iso-8859-1″

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thank you all fro your help on the question of the technique used on the child’s cap. The consensus seems to be that cording is the proper term.

Boutis was mentioned often; I plan to spend some time with Quilts of

Provence tonight. It’s so great to have you all at my finger tips. Merry

Christmas.

Cinda on the Eastern Shore where it is amazing cold and windy. This will seem balmy when I arrive at my Christmas destination in upstate New York.

Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:05:36 -0500 | From: “Kris Driessen, Hickory Hill Quilts”

Please answer her directly and cc the list. An interesting topic!

Kris From: tardiff3 [at] aol [dot] com

My father died recently and gave me a quilt his grandmother made when he was a child. I am looking for a historical heritage center in LeCenter, MN to submit an application for preservation. My 82 year old aunt says that some of the material used in the quilt was from a dress she wore as a teenager. The quilt is hand sewn with a distinct spoke wheel pattern in excellent condition. I think the quilt has a lot of history behind it and am looking for a historical home for it. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that? tardiff3 [at] aol [dot] com

Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 12:42:52 +0200 | From: Ady Hirsch <adamroninetvision.net.il>

Hi Barbara
Re – “How does boutis differ from candlewick work?”

In boutis, you take 2 pieces of unwashed fabric, the bottom a loosely woven
cotton. The pattern is marked on the top piece and both pieces are then
basted together, WITHOUT batting, Then you stitch along the lines of the
pattern, in tiny stitches. Once the entire pattern has been stitches, you
thread a boutis needle with thick cotton thread and start inserting the
thread between the stitched lines. This is an incredibly labour-intensive
process. When the entire design has been “filled” with thread (including
round sections, such as grapes, where the needle goes back and forthe
several times to pad out the area) the boutis is washed, tob shrink the
cotton and prevent the threads from escaping.
In candlewicking, to the best of my knowledge, the thread is sewn in little
loops along the lined of the pattern, in a single layer of fabric. These
loops are later snipped open to get the “chenille” look. Here, too, the
cotton is washed to shrink it and retain the candlewicking in place. The
look is totally different from boutis – a single layer of fabric decorated
with a pattern done in “tufts” of thread. Boutis are closer to wholecloth
quilts in look, although the designs are much more intricate and the actual
preparation hugely time-consuming.
Happy holidays
Ady

Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:09:55 -0500 | From: “pepper cory” <pepcorymail.clis.com>

NQR story–strange but true. Once when down in northern Indiana I was
running around on back roads with a friend when we came up on an Amish
buggy. It was wandering the road, with the unguided horse going from side to
side. Behind it on the road we saw beer cans and another can dropped out of
the buggy as we watched. As we slowly drew past the buggy so as not to
frighten the horse, we looked back to see three very drunk Amish young men
rolling around in the buggy obviously having a grand ole time! Wonder if
THAT was an Amish bachelor party?!
Merry Christmas!
Pepper Cory in windy but sunny NC

Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:28:29 EST | From: [from unknown]

Just thought I’d point out that a person is not born Amish. The “three drunk
young Amish boys” were probably not actually Amish at the time. It is not
uncommon to see young male members of an Amish family actually driving cars
either. However, these boys cannot park their cars on their parents
property. Before they join the Amish church, they can pretty much do
anything they want or can get away with, I grew up in Mifflin, Co Pa. near
Bellville, a good sized Amish community. The stories I’d here about the pre
Amish, from friends of mine in Bellville were pretty amazing. The tales
about the young girls are for another list altogether.

Darwin in very cold Akron, Ohio

–

Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:42:46 -0800 | From: Chris Anacker <chrisajetlink.net>

I heard Julie Silber talk about this recently, so I will share with the
apologies ahead of time for probably not getting it all exact. She told us
that the teenage children of the Amish are “pushed” so to speak to engage in
wine, women and song for a rather short time, a year or so. They are aloud
to stay up very late at night, alone together in the parents homes as well.
This kind of freedom is granted in order to allow the children to experience
“the other side of life” so that they can make an honest, educated
commitment to staying with the order, or not. It may be that this tradition
is in one Amish community, like Lancaster, and not others, I don’t recall.
Julie told us this at Repiecers in Irvine Ca this last June. We were all
flabbergasted, but when you think about it, it’s rather sophisticated
thinking on the parents part. Teens will be teens.

HOHOHO!
Kim Wulfert
A Quilter’s Journey Through New England Tours

From: DDBSTUFF@
To: QHL@

As far as the Amish parents encouraging their children to experience the
other way of life, well, I never heard of such a thing either back home in
Mifflin Co. Pa. or here in Ohio where we have the largest population of Amish
in the world. I suppose it might be to some extent but I doubt if this would
include booze and drugs.
The one thing I will tell you is that if a young member of an Amish Family
doesn’t join the Amish Church, he or she is “shunned” for life. This means,
no member of the Amish is to have anything to do with them. This includes
the immediate family. This sure doesn’t sound like much of a choice to me.
However, lots of the young do make this choice.

Darwin Bearley, on Christmas Day in very cold Akron, Ohio

Merry Christmas

Darwin

Date: Sun, 24 Dec 00 09:34:26 -0600 | From: woodford <haqgalenalink.net>

It’s me again. I guess what I saw and I regret having bid to the top was
a spread with both techniques you mention, as it had the cording all over
the center in exquisite designs, and the edge had a tufted border. All
white. Do you know any way to kick one’s self?

Barbara, the regretful

Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 09:58:33 EST | From: DDBSTUFF@

I just stumbled onto this site while looking for something else. I haven’t read it all but I think it will give you all lots of info about the Amish <A HREF=”http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/amish.html”> Religious Movements Homepage: Amish</A> or if that doesn’t work for you, copy and paste this address into your browser: http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/amish.html Enjoy, Darwin

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 | From: [from unknown]

In a letter on today’s list I read this phrase, “A friend is on the verge of starting a Civil War era quilt.” OK, folks, how on earth is someone, today, going to make a Civil War era quilt? This is like a non-Amish quilter trying to tell us that she just made an Amish quilt. Now, I know what was meant by this statement but for much of my Antique Quilt collecting days, some 26 plus years to be exact, I have heard statements like this and my reaction has always been the same as when someone scrapes their finger nails on a chalkboard. Whether it was someone telling me that their quilt was an antique, even though they had just quilted from an old top or from someone who wasn’t Amish, telling me they had just made an Amish Quilt. Now, most of us on this list are quilters, quilt collectors, dealers, quilt historians and quilt restorers and some of us are a little bit of all these things. Isn’t it time we start talking in actual terms? No non-Amish person can make an Amish quilt but only a copy of one. No body can make an antique quilt no matter how old their fabric is and no body can make an antique quilt out of an old top although I have been shown plenty. These are new quilts because they are newly quilted. I’m sure all of you must know this and yet some ofyou continue to make these statements. Is there anyone else who is bugged by this type of language or is it just acceptable among quilters? Am I missing something? If you were writing an English term paper, an article or a book, you would never be able to get away with using this kind of English language so why do some of you persist? (Actually, I have seen articles that used this kind of language and it drove me insane why else would I be writing this?) There, I got that of my back and boy do I feel better
Thanks,
Darwin

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:43:53 -0800 | From: “Colleen Rourke Silkwood” <silkypsln.com>

I really don’t see how belittling is an appropriate word. If any word has to be attached, perhaps complementary, but maybe just funny with no deep meaning. Sex is so pervasive these days any suggestion that some men MAY not participate seems to be taken as a put-down. (Check out the current adds on TV) As for some of the ideas concerning Amish culture, perhaps a service has been rendered to get them into the open so they could be corrected. Colleen

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 07:18:27 EST | From: [from unknown]

I think you’re overreacting a bit. Yes, the correct phrase should be “I’mmaking a Civil War style quilt” or something like it. However, the meaningwas clear, so where is the problem? This isn’t a collection of scholarlypapers, and the use of jargon, informal style, or jargon should be acceptable.
Besides, please recall that not everyone on this list is an expert. Some arejust beginning their journey into studying the history of quilts, andcriticizing them for not using specific language may well discourage themfrom participating on the list or continuing to study old quilts. Others maybe interested in other eras (Depression quilts, crazies, medieval quilts,etc.), other countries, and so on. And some may just be lurking becausethey’re vaguely interested.
I agree that “Civil War quilt” is not technically correct, any more than metelling me friends that I’m making myself some Renaissance garb to replace myold SCA duds. However, as long as everyone understands the meaning of thespeaker, I don’t see the point of giving everyone a grammar lesson. Aren’twe all supposed to be friends here?
Karen EvansEasthampton, MA

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 07:34:48 -0500 | From: “bonnie wilbur” <bonnie.wilburoracle.com>

Darwin,
Everyone uses sloppy phraseology occasionally in their life. I saw onegrammatical mistake and one misspelling in your post, and even though I wasan English major many years ago, people will find them in this post as well,probably.
Your point, an important one, is that if this list comprises many of thebest living quilt historians and addresses many obscure or debatable quilthistory questions, we should be precise and careful with our language asrelated to quilting provenance. But this list also comprises a large numberof quilt history newcomers who are here to learn, so a simple explanation ofwhy that phrase (“a Civil War-era quilt”) is a misnomer might be moreuseful.
I made the same sort of mistake before I learned much about antiquefurniture: I thought that the sentence my grandfather had written on thebottom of a footstool he had made (“This cherry wood was 175 years old whenthis was made in 1932.”) meant that the stool was as valuable as a piecemade in the 1700s. I now realise he just wanted to remind us of how longthe lumberyard had been in the family and that the stool is no more valuablethan any handmade item from 1932.
Now I have a followup question if it hasn’t been discussed too often (I’mnew, too): what techniques do we use to tell the difference between anauthentic Amish quilt and an Amish-style quilt?
Bonnie Wilbur

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:26:50 EST | From: [from unknown]

Holiday Greetings from frozen Iowa!! I am working on a lecture for my local quilt guild on Thimbles….and was wondering if anyone has any special stories or “lore” about thimbles…. some things I already have included are: playing “Who’s Got the Thimble” ~ one of my earliest childhood memories…sort of hide ‘n seek played with a thimble…my Mom would hide a thimble and then would give clues “you’re hot” “you’re cold” until my brother or I finally found it. Then there is the “thimble kiss” from Peter Pan…. and Laura Ingalls Wilder told of making designs on a frosty window pane with a thimble in “The Little House in the Big Woods”. These are the kind of things I am looking for….rather than “I love my Roxanne thimble” types of things. I never had much luck wearing & using a thimble until I started quilting (although my Jr. High Home Ec. teacher tried 🙂 Then, when my Grandmother passed away, I was given all her sewing supplies. I inherited a number of old thimbles, both metal & plastic advertising types, and I got started collecting thimbles. When we travel, I buy thimbles for souvenirs…small, usually inexpensive & easy to pack to bring home 🙂 And friends give me thimbles, too… I find all the endless varieties fascinating!! Although some of them (like my Waterford thimble) are far from “functional”!! TIA for any stories/info you can share…. Karan

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:31:33 -0500 | From: “bonnie wilbur” <bonnie.wilburoracle.com>

One of the thimbles I own is about 3/8″ high, sterling silver, which was oneof 12 silver pieces baked into my parents’ wedding cake (1948). Each wassupposed to represent some special kind of luck or wish for the weddingcouple or something like that. The thimble and a bride-and-groom statuettewere the only two given back to my mother, so I don’t know what else therewould have been and can’t remember exactly what the pieces meant. I’d beglad for any more information.
Bonnie

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:27:41 -0600 | From: Laura Hobby Syler <texas_quilt.co@>

Hi Ady and Barbara, Actually, Candlewicking is called so because it is done with a “thread” similar to the old fashioned cording used in candles…without the modern wire in the center. It is a distinctive know that is formed on the needle, wrapping the thread in a figure -8 motion and inserting the needle back into the background fabric. Not unlike a french knot, but the figure-8 “loop” creates a round knot, rather than a cylindrical shaped thing…. I agree with everyone else about Cinda’s little cap. Cordwork sounds like the right technique. I’ve had to do a lot of research on these topics lately. I’m working on a commission piece for a client….kind of a combination of a Durham and Boutis style quilt…on wonderful Pierre Deaux fabric! The house is decorated all in 17th Century French antiques, but she didn’t want all the cording of a boutis style quilt. Still, the design she settled on is beautiful! At 12:42 PM 12/23/2000 +0200, Ady Hirsch wrote: >Hi Barbara >Re – “How does boutis differ from candlewick work?” > >In boutis, you take 2 pieces of unwashed fabric, the bottom a loosely woven >cotton. The pattern is marked on the top piece and both pieces are then >basted together, WITHOUT batting, Then you stitch along the lines of the >pattern, in tiny stitches. Once the entire pattern has been stitches, you >thread a boutis needle with thick cotton thread and start inserting the >thread between the stitched lines. This is an incredibly labour-intensive >process. When the entire design has been “filled” with thread (including >round sections, such as grapes, where the needle goes back and forthe >several times to pad out the area) the boutis is washed, tob shrink the >cotton and prevent the threads from escaping. >In candlewicking, to the best of my knowledge, the thread is sewn in little >loops along the lined of the pattern, in a single layer of fabric. These >loops are later snipped open to get the “chenille” look. Here, too, the >cotton is washed to shrink it and retain the candlewicking in place. The >look is totally different from boutis – a single layer of fabric decorated >with a pattern done in “tufts” of thread. Boutis are closer to wholecloth >quilts in look, although the designs are much more intricate and the actual >preparation hugely time-consuming. >Happy holidays >Ady

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:34:52 -0600 | From: “Avalon” <malthausidcnet.com>

Darwin,
May I rephrase my question?
A friend is interested in making a quilt which she would like to be in the manner of quilts which were made during the Civil War era. She is hoping to use block patterns that were being used during that time frame as well asreproduction fabric, being produced by present day manufacturers, toresemble the colors/prints available to those living and quilting in the1860’s.
It appears you were so intent on correcting my inappropriate use of quilting terminology and the English language, that you overlooked any input inregards to my question. As a quilt collector of 26 years, I would ask thatyou share some of the knowledge that you have amassed during those years ofstudy.
I was not attempting “to write an English paper, an article (for publication) or a book.” I was simply posing a question to a Quilt HistoryList that I was under the impression would contain members who possessed theknowledge to answer with accurate information.
If this is not appropriate, I stand corrected.Mary in Wisconsin

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 17:47:50 -0800 | From: “Colleen Rourke Silkwood” <silkypsln.com>

Colleen
> Interesting thread, and one we might usefully pursue if we can ourselves> remain “civil” <VBG!>>> I would like to introduce the thought that “Civil War quilts” (as> opposed to Civil War “era ” – covering what period?) may be something of> a misnomer even in the original. Consider that from 1861 to 1865 the> nation was divided by war, with the bulk of the cotton cultivation being> done in the southern states, and the bulk of the textile manufacturing> and printing being done in the northeast. The North was actively> blockading southern shipping ports against the exporting of cotton to> Great Britain, and burning cotton warehouses when they could. And in> the post-war “Reconstruction” period, southern agriculture was in a> state of disarray and probably massive cotton harvests were not> immediate.>> It would seem that at some point the mills in New England would have run> out of raw materials with which to manufacture cotton goods. Raw cotton> would have to have been imported from sources not controlled by the> British Empire, which sided with the South. We know that many northern> women wore wool and silk during this period, and it is possible that> “pressed” Log Cabin quilts in wools and silks may also have originated> then, when cotton was not readily available for fabric or for batting.> Even wool was not readily available, given the demands of the> military.

(“Shoddy” was a term for inexpensive and poorly made woolen> cloth of New England manufacture, used for uniforms for the Union army,> and often made from recycled woolens.)>> I asked Linda Pumphrey of Mountain Mist where that company got its> cotton during the Civil War, as it did continue to produce mattresses,> wadding, and cotton products for military use in some quantities. She> said she had also asked that question, and research showed that the raw> materials came from the Utah Territory, overland by wagon and boat.>> So…the question is, if during the Civil War there was not a lot of> cotton fabric being produced, and not a lot of wadding or batting, then> were the quilts we refer to as “Civil War” quilts really reflective of> fabrics from 1861-65? Or were they more likely made of saved fabrics> and dressmaking cuts from the 1850s?>> Discussion?>> Xenia>>

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:17:24 EST | From: Chyralaol.comTo:

QHLcuenet.com This is the type of quilt making exercise I most often engage in. I find itvery helpful to do a good deal of research, in the form of just looking atthe quilts from the period I want to emulate. I get out all those books Ikeep buying (!) and look at the dates in the photo captions, bookmarking thequilts that appeal to me. When I’ve gone through lots of images, I againlook at the onces I liked. This time I am looking for similarities in termsof color, set, type of blocks, use of sashing, borders, etc. Sometimes, Ifind one quilt that so appeals to me that I try to replicate it as closely aspossible. Other times, I find I am enamored of a quilt “type,” and I borrowideas from a number of existing quilts; when I choose this approach, I dotry to make design choices that both reflect and respect the regionaldifferences in quiltmaking traditions.

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 19:39:15 +0400 | From: Xenia Cord <xecordnetusa1.net>

Interesting thread, and one we might usefully pursue if we can ourselvesremain “civil” <VBG!>
I would like to introduce the thought that “Civil War quilts” (asopposed to Civil War “era ” – covering what period?) may be something ofa misnomer even in the original. Consider that from 1861 to 1865 thenation was divided by war, with the bulk of the cotton cultivation beingdone in the southern states, and the bulk of the textile manufacturingand printing being done in the northeast. The North was activelyblockading southern shipping ports against the exporting of cotton toGreat Britain, and burning cotton warehouses when they could. And inthe post-war “Reconstruction” period, southern agriculture was in astate of disarray and probably massive cotton harvests were notimmediate.
It would seem that at some point the mills in New England would have runout of raw materials with which to manufacture cotton goods. Raw cottonwould have to have been imported from sources not controlled by theBritish Empire, which sided with the South. We know that many northernwomen wore wool and silk during this period, and it is possible that”pressed” Log Cabin quilts in wools and silks may also have originatedthen, when cotton was not readily available for fabric or for batting.Even wool was not readily available, given the demands of themilitary.

(“Shoddy” was a term for inexpensive and poorly made woolencloth of New England manufacture, used for uniforms for the Union army,and often made from recycled woolens.)
I asked Linda Pumphrey of Mountain Mist where that company got itscotton during the Civil War, as it did continue to produce mattresses,wadding, and cotton products for military use in some quantities. Shesaid she had also asked that question, and research showed that the rawmaterials came from the Utah Territory, overland by wagon and boat.
So…the question is, if during the Civil War there was not a lot ofcotton fabric being produced, and not a lot of wadding or batting, thenwere the quilts we refer to as “Civil War” quilts really reflective offabrics from 1861-65? Or were they more likely made of saved fabricsand dressmaking cuts from the 1850s?
Discussion?
Xenia

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:34:27 EST | From: QultFrFnaol.comTo:

xecordnetusa1.net , Dear All — Being fortunate enough to have seen, fondled, and enjoyed manyCivil War Era cotton quilts from my husband’s family I feel I can comment onthese, south Georgia, quilts. I assume that these remaining, family, quiltsare probably, actually, ‘reconstruction’ quilts – post Civil War Era. The fabric was well worn and pieced, in these utility quilts, beforebeing put into the quilts. The cotton wadding came from the local fields –full of small ‘litter’ — and I’m pretty sure the cotton thread used forquilting (at one inch,parallel, intervals) was spun on the property. Much ofthe cotton, unprinted, fabric I suspect was woven on the property as well asit is as rough as osnaberg. The quilts are all quite large, at least100″ X100″, and fit the huge beds I’ve slept in at the old place. Several childrenor adults would have shared the same bed when the family lived there. Thepieced patterns, various stars, and geometric patterns are well cut andstitched with attention to detail when possible. They are VERY heavy. My father-in-law died about ten years ago at the age of 101 and ninemonths. He had many family stories to tell of the area around Buena Vista,Georgia. All my best to you. Our quilts and stories are living history we canshare — don’t spoil it by being petty. Nancy Brenan Daniel

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:01:27 -0500 | From: Barb Garrett <bgarrett@>:

Bonnie asked —
Now I have a followup question if it hasn’t been discussed too often(I’mnew, too): what techniques do we use to tell the difference between anauthentic Amish quilt and an Amish-style quilt?
My thoughts —
The only technique I know for telling an authentic Amish quilt is toknow the name of the maker and her cultural/religious heritage. As faras quilting, piecing, fabric choice, pattern choice, etc — from what Isee in Lancaster County, PA, there are no distinguishing physical characteristics to make a quilt Amish, as in Amish-made. I’m talkingabout post 1940 Amish quilts — quilts made in the 1950s to thepresent.

Prior to that the Amish quilt maintained a distinctive styleand it was not being copied by other people as it is today. The Amishstyle quilts that many people refer to as Amish quilts today aregenerally cotton versions of the old pre-1940 wool and rayon Amishquilts.

But since they are popular tourist sellers, some are also madeby the Amish today, as well as by the non-Amish quiltmaker.

And Idon’t know of any physical characteristic to tell who made the quilt.
If you would like to see a bunch of newly made Amish/Mennonite/Brethren quilts for sale, click on this ebay seller’s listing and check out ones that look interesting — you will see that they look like everyone else’s quilts.

Barb in southeastern PA

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 | From: Darwin (DDBSTUFF [at] aol [dot] com)