August 13 – 14, 2004
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Freezing Quilts to Kill Insects — A detailed exchange on whether and how freezing kills insect pests in antique quilts, including how many freeze cycles are needed.
- Restoration Cleaning Product Ingredients — Members compare notes on the ingredients (sodium perborate) and safe use of the commercial cleaning product Restoration. (see the article on cleaning antique quilts)
- Truth and Historical Method Debate — The philosophical debate over “Truth” in historical scholarship continues, with members weighing in on reasoned argument versus dogma.
- Sleeves for Hanging Quilts — A member asks for the best method of adding hanging sleeves to antique quilts for display. (see the article on caring for antique quilts)
From: Ivory22986@
you want to look at this 🙂 _http://www.qbu.com/shop/prodetails.asp?prodid1583_ (http://www.qbu.com/shop/prodetails.asp?prodid1583) Ivory
who Patricia Cox is? I’m not really sure where to look or who to ask. I was going through a box of “stuff” from my dearest MIL’s estate and found a wonderful applique basket pattern, pretty large size, with a signature “Patricia Cox 1984”. I’m guessing the pattern is for a medallion block since it’s set on point. Mom was a quilter and collected all sorts of patterns I’m sure she picked this up somewhere but I would be interested in more information. There was no envelope or anything I am relying on others for help! Thanks in advance. Hugs, Babette in Illinois
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Good morning:
I received a letter from a list member this morning which accuses me of misrepresenting the facts in my report about the above ebay auction. For the record, I would like to tell you all that even though the final front page of the auction indicates “0” bids, there was one bid which had been retracted. That bid was for the lowest starting price requested by the seller, $1,200.
If anyone doubts my word, just go to the auction which is still listed (I just checked) and click on the bid number. This will bring up a bid history which gives the ebay “handle” of the bidder, and the reason for bid retraction:
*Bid: *Jul-28-04 20:34:01 PDT **Cancellation: **Aug-07-04 14:58:01 PDT *Cancellation: *US $1,200.00 *Explanation: *Question about copyright infringement has been raised. paintpinkpanther http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback
>Feedback
score is 100 to 499
I attempt to state facts as clearly and as truthfully, as I can.
If there is some “real” problem with anything I’ve said, other than the fact that you don’t like what I’ve written about, then please let me know, because my main objective is to provide fair, unbiased, and accurate reporting of events.
Thanks so much for your kind consideration. Thanks also to many of you who have taken the time to read the new file on copyright on my website and who have written me lovely and supportive notes, privately.
Warm wishes toward all,
Patricia Cummings www.quiltersmuse.com
From: “jocelynm@” <jocelynm@>
On August 13, 2004, Anne Copeland wrote:
>To imagine slaves > having not only a means of escaping their owners, but having an organized > way of escaping would give a race of people who currently live with some > form of oppression on a daily basis something they could identify with.
> They could choose to make it their “truth” because it made sense of > something in their world that does not make sense.
Annie, I can see how it would be appealing. Likewise, as a white Southerner, I don’t want to believe that my ancestors owned slaves or mistreated Black people. Should I then adopt the myth that there never was slavery? That all slaves were treated with kindness, and lived in comfort, and it was just a slight difference from being employees?
Meanwhile, while Black children are being taught about the quilt code, they’re NOT being taught about how their ancestors, illiterate and destitute, blasted out of slavery to become entrepreneurs and scholars. The late 19th century had a level of black-owned businesses that is unequaled today. It would probably do a great deal of good if children KNEW that having been a slave and not being able to read didn’t stop their great-great-grandfather from having his own business, and that the current level of oppression they’re suffering does not doom them to unemployment and poverty.
Let’s have the REAL stories told, because they’re better than the myths.
From: Hazelmacc@
Patricia Cox was an early student of the Baltimore Applique quilts. She lives at 6601 Normandale Rd., Minneapolis, MN 55435. Too bad she is not on QHL for she would be pleased to learn about the pattern found in the MIL things….Hazel Carter
From: Dana at Material Pleasures <danabalsamo@>
Hi Pat, I thought the report you wrote was very well written in all aspects.
I just checked the auction, and noticed that the bid was retracted 1 minute prior to the seller prematuring ending her auction. Odd? Did the seller wait for the the cancellations? Was it coincidence? Did the buyer still want the quilt, but want to keep the sale private?
And although the bid cancellation is visible on the bidder page, if you go to the bidder’s feedback, it states no retractions in the past 6 months. Maybe it takes ebay a few days to update the system?
Or maybe it doesn’t mean a thing. Just making an observation.
My best, Dana
From: Barbara Robson <robsonbhhfx.@>
A couple of weeks ago there was a news report on the national Canadian Television Network (CTV) about a new monument that has been built in Owen Sound, Ontario to commemorate the last stop on the Underground Railway. Owen Sound is a little over 150 miles north off the US border. The monument was built by a woman to honour her ancestors who came to settle in Owen Sound via the Underground Railway. The monument itself was about 4′ tall and is an “L” shape but the interesting thing was that on the ground there were squares that looked like they were made of cement or stone with grass growing in between and on the squares (approx12″-16″) were painted or glazed quilt squares from, you guessed it…the secret code!! The woman, Bonita Johnson-deMatteis, said that she expected more squares of the quilt to arrive from other Underground Railroad sites.
I googled “Owen Sound + Underground Railroad Monument” and came up with this site for more information:
http://www.culturescanada.ca/news.php?detailn1092248374.news
Here is another site with more information and a picture of the monument…
http://www.osblackhistory.com/cairn2.php
Just more food for thought or fuel for the fire!
Barbara Robson Fox Point, Nova Scotia Canada
From: Midnitelaptop@
in 1988 mary ellen hopkins published a book Baker’s Dozen Doubled…in it, is a pattern of her design called Windsor Rose Quilt…. in 1996 blanche young published a book Traditions with a twist….in it is a pattern of her design called Blooming Nine Patch Quilt.. they are the exact same pattern idea ……did blanche infringe on mary ellen’s copyright? jeanL
From: “Newbie Richardson” <pastcrafts@>
Dear Ms Lane, Your queery as to the best method for creating sleeves for quilts was posted to the Quilt Hisotry List – a group of historic quilt professionals and amateurs ( in the best sense of the word). If you have not yet been inundated, I will give you our take on it. I am part of the Costume and Textile Specialists, my partner, Colleen Callahan ( curator emeritus of the Valentine Museum, Richmond, VA) and I specialize in the conservation and exhibition of costume and textiles. If possible, using a Velcro mounting system is better for the support of the quilts. You first machine sew a 2″ strip of the “soft” or “loop” side of the Velcro to upholstry webbing which as been pre-washed to remove any sizing. This must be the same width as the quilt The webbing is then hand sewn on to the quilt using a whip stich that goes through the back and batting – and through the full three layers to the front of the quilt every 3 stitches. This gives the whole piece the proper support so that the backing and batting do not pull away from the front. The “sticky’ – or hook-side of the Velcro is then stapled or glued ( hot melt glue is archival) to a piece of wood which is affixed to the wall. Hang the piece and enjoy. If you have various quilts in assorted sizes and need to change out the pieces in the same space, then we use another technique. We still sew the soft side of the Velcro to webbing and hand sew to the quilt. However, we then make a double sided strip of the “sticky” – or hook -side of the Vecro sewn back to back .The sicky side is on both sides of the strip. Then cover a piece of wood in Veltex fabric ( yardage made like the soft side of the Velcro). Mount the quilt using the Velcro adapter to the Veltex covered wood. In an exhibit we worked on which currently features Marie Webster quilts, there is a slanted platform to display the rotating group of quilts. This technique allows for the display of different sized quilts using the same mount – which is a cost saver. In the exhibit we worked on, ‘Enterprising Women:200 years of AMerican Women in Business’, the platform is covered with the Veltex fabric. This is the same fabric that many framers use in their shops when storing/displaying corners of moulding. However, if the collector/owner wants sleeves, then please size each sleeve to fit the full width of the quilt. That is the best way to fully support the full weight of the quilt. I recommend that every 3 stitches go through to the front so that the fullw ieght of the piece is supported as above. As I point out in my workshops, textiles are like the skin on our faces – they too suffer from the pull of gravity! For help closer to you, I recommend Lynn Lancaster Gorges, Historic Textiles Studio in New Bern, NC, (Palampore@) and/or Louise Benner, Asst. Curator of Costume and Textiles, N.C Museum of History, Raleigh (louise.bennerncmail.com) Yours Sincerely, A.Newbold (Newbie) Richardson The Costume and Textile Specialists Appraisals, Conservation, & Exhibition Alexandria and Richmond, VA www.costumeandtextile.com
From: “Candace Perry” <candace@>
Newbie…did you forward this the person asking for the info…as she’s not on the list (I fear I deleted her email addy) Candace Perry
From: “Newbie Richardson” <pastcrafts@>
The problem with most commercially made chocolate sauces and treats is that they contain one of many commercial red dyes. Chances are, that is why the stain is so stubborn. I, too have coped with this stain on children’s “best” clothing. Considering the quilter has tried so many different chemicals and Has managed to minimize the stain, I’d leave it alone and flush with plain water once the quilt is finished. I am afraid that the residual of the “Molotoff” cocktail of chemicals used to initially treat the stain will cause that area to be much weaker than the rest of the quilt. You want to be sure to flush them out. Once the quilt has been soaked in plain water, allow to dry with a clean muslin sheet – or yardage- placed over the whole and smoothed down to “stick” to the wet quilt. Capillary action will cause any remaining deposits to wick to the top most surface – ie the sheet – and off of the quilt. the Savon de Marseilles is a good solvent for any organic stains, but would probably not work on dye. An American version is Fells Naptha. PS: any soap/detergent rubbed on a stain full strength will act as a solvent – that is what many of the stain sticks we buy commercially are made of – detergent in a suspension. However, whether it works depends on the chemical structure of the stain and that of the “surfactant” (soap/detergent). Newbie Richardson – in NO.VA with plans for 50 for dinner Saturday night for my daughter’s graduation, etc. with the threat of a total wash out by the huricane coming North via the West coast of Florida. Teddy – are you battening down the hatches?
From: “Newbie Richardson” <pastcrafts@>
I would just like to support Joan’s post about the correct uses for Orvus. I just spent a full week with 12 other mid-career conservation professionals as a “lab rat” in the textile conservation lab at Winterthur experimenting with all kinds of wet cleaning. We confirmed Joan’s post via experiments. Now mind, we were looking at HISTORIC textiles – ie those which we would like to have still intact for our heirs in 200 more years! The bad news is that regardless of the wet cleaning procedure we used, they ALL weakened the structural strength of the fibers..sigh. so what is worse: the acids, grime and pollutants in the fibers, or the weakening otf the fibers in order to remove these impurities??????? Add to the mix the curatorial decisions that must be made that in order to exhibit a piece it must be made presentable, for if it is not, the museum going public will not be as entranced with saving “dirty” things and will not vote us the necessary funding. Solomon’s choice anyone?
Newbie Richardson
From: “Newbie Richardson” <pastcrafts@>
In addition to having been around for at least 10 years – if not 15, The museum currently has a wonderful exhibit of coverlets. These are one man’s collection and will be up for all to enjoy until Labor Day – after which they will be auctioned in November. As quilts and coverlets co-existed, I applaud Joan for taking the bit by the teeth and organizing this exhibit. She also helped promote a near by exhibit of earlier, Virginia, overshot coverlets at an historic site – I want to say Fort? Sorry, don’t remember the details. Newbie Richardson
From: Gail Ingram <gingram@>
I must protest strongly the notion that Truth, if we use it in its Proper philosophical, ontological definition as ultimate reality, First Cause, is relative.
Truth might not be fully knowable. It might possibly be learned by Different means (these are epistemological considerations). But the very nature Of Truth is its unchanging, unalterable existance.
Keats, in his “Ode on a Grecian Urn” wrote “Beauty is Truth, Truth beauty,”meaning that truth is learned through the faculty Keats called imagination.St. Paul said it is through “the Word” that one learns Truth, meaning theBible. Both are talking about the same ontological reality. They differ only in their epistemologies, the methods by which they reach that goal—and, some would argue, differ not a lot, as the Roman Catholic meditational forms suggest.
Philosophically, one must assume that when one knows Truth, apparent contractions in the empirical, physical world are reconciled.
But we are not talking about ultimate Truth when we are talking about The UGRR or the notion that patchwork was the first quilting done in America or that the Civil War was fought principally about slavery.
We are talking about empirical facts, things that can be proved objectively or, at the very least, deduced beyond a reasonable doubt from a set of facts.
We might reason about the causes for these facts, but we are limited in the methods we may legitimately use in our reasoning.
Evidence, whether used in a court of law or in writing, must meet three criteria: First, it must be factual. Second, it must be relevant to the assertion to be proved or disproved. Third, it must be sufficient to convince the group one must convince.
To say that because one cannot locate evidence to support a claim, the clai m is false is invalid.. Perhaps evidence exists and is lost or simply not accessible. But one can justify no assertion until he has found that evidence.
It is intellectually irresponsible to assume facts exist simply because suc h facts would meet a need of a given group or writer. Facts are not about an y need other than ascertaining reality.
So far, sufficient evidence has been produced to support the claim of the UGRR.
To perpetuate that claim without evidence must, one assumes, result either from ignorance (some people believe anything that is in print), from flawed scholarship, or a conscious effort to mislead.
Myth, used in the philosophical or psychological meaning, embodies many things within a culture. It might embody the group’s dreams and aspirations . In Homer’s “The Odyssey,” for instance, Odysseus embodies qualites most valued by the Achaeans—cleverness, guile, hospitality, faithfulness to home and family, courage. Myth might also embody a group’s greatest fears, hatreds, shames.
A group’s myths may be used to discover something about the group,t hough without great certainty unless we introduce other evidence.
But a group’s myths cannot be equated with fact . And they certainly cannot be named “truth.”
Were I interpreting the UGRR myth—and it deserves examination as myth—I would be forced to consider that it might embody the shame of at least one cultural group, probably two. Despite our contemporary penchant for victimhood, most groups recognize that victimhood generally implies a lack of courage, a disparity between asserted values and values that are realized in action.
It is plausible that African-Americans, now that they lived in the mainstream of American society for a long time, have absorbed the value implied in Patrick Henry’s claim that liberty purchased at the price of chains and slavery is not liberty at all and that the proper response to a denial of liberty is active resistance to the death. “As for myself,” Henry declaimed in that little church south of Richmond, “Give me liberty or give me death.” Perhaps they have also had to recognize that many of the people who sold them into slavery were themselves people from Africa who wore blac k skins, their own fellows. Should this be the case, one can make a good argument that the UGRR myth somehow helps absolve the group of shame that they did not resist more agressively and in greater numbers the slavery to which tey were subjected.
What must be recognized, however, is the UGRR “myth” does not appear to derive from any discernable general cultural impulse. Unlike the story of Odysseus, who does seem to celebrate the qualities most typically valued in his society, the UGRR seems compensatory and rooted in a desire to escape a distasteful reality.
This “myth” also serves the needs of another cultural Group white Americans who, as a lot, supported and participated in slavery. Although the first slaves were brought to America in foreign ships, in time New England vessels engaged in the lucrative trade (the South had no significant shipbuilding industry). Northern mills were eager to purchase the cotton produced only in consequence of slavery (Are there any significant industrial boycotts of American cotton?). Americans in general eagerly bought these textiles (Did consumer boycotts occur?), thereby participating in the complex machinery of slavery. In time, some a decided minority of Americans did endeavor to set up a system whereby a small number of slaves might find their way to freedom, but look how long that took to come about. The fact is white America was complicit in slavery, caring more about its own material needs than it cared about the liberty of all. For those who wish to deny that fact, the UGRR serves a purpose—a desire to escape a distasteful fact and to suggest that a segment of white Americans worked in league with slaves t o help secure their freedom.
But this is not “myth” as Myth is normally understood philosophically or psychologically, for Myth arises from within the group and is widespread. I t is informal, passed informally. It seems to me what we are talking about is manufactured myth, based on the most tenuous of sources and totally uncorroborated by plausible data.
Re: >To imagine slaves >having not only a means of escaping their owners, but having an organized >way of escaping would give a race of people who currently live with some >form of oppression on a daily basis something they could identify with. >They could choose to make it their “truth” because it made sense of >something in their world that does not make sense.
What does the UGRR “make sense” of, prithee? Who is oppressed by the American Constitution and its implementation in the year 2003?
This statement is another way of saying, ‘This myth permits a group to escape odious facts and/or to avoid independence and courage today.’ It attributes victimhood to the African-American sub-culture as a whole.
Moreover, it is self-contradictory to then argue the UGRR story “creates a sense of empowerment.”
Nobody needs “a sense of empowerment.” People need empowerment.
It is time America dealt with the fact that slavery was an evil in which our entire nation participated and which was not resisted in an organized fashion by the enslaved. It should have been resisted. It should not have existed. Only materialism made it tempting and let a nation formed generall y by people who subscribed to the Biblical Golden Rule conveniently reinterpret that Rule.
Such facts can empower all of us. They can place upon African-Americans the responsibilities to deal with the current evils within their sub-culture an d to fight the disabling claims of victimhood. It can remind white Americans of the need to see ourselves in all other peoples and show us how easy it is to justify a practice which benefits us materially. It can, in other words, force everyone to deal with facts, not compensatory fabrications. A very healthy result.
I grew up in the Deep South when it was segregated, and I felt the degradation implied by the sign “colored” over a water fountain or by the fact that black teenagers had to sit in the “Jim Crow” balconies at movies. I knew African-Americans personally, not as abstractions, and everything within me shared the shame and the oppression that my peers of another skin color and another culture had to endure. I was a child. I could do little except be the only kid in my class to be a fan of the Brooklyn Dodgers, wh o had broken the color barrier, to be nettlesome to those who counseled slow change, and to accord the same kind of courtesy to black people that I acorded whites. Memories from that time remain so vivid that even now, with a busy teaching career and a desire for more leisure, I make a point to see k out promising African-American youths and tutor them for the ACT/SAT and help them earn scholarships to good colleges.
But the operative word is “earn,” for I know these young people are not “oppressed” politically, not genetically incapable of succeeding on their own. I know they suffer the same fate too many white students face–a schoo l system that has failed them. Yet I also know their local community has not given them a vital sense of self-empowerment and self-responsibility so basic to success. I can help them with that. I can direct them to the work they must do to succeed. I can guide them in a way that makes the success their own achievement.
It is what I do for a vocation and avocation.
It is what can happen when we face facts, however distasteful, instead of creating dreamy stories that help us escape fact and Truth.
Why don’t we once and for all acknowledge the subtext of this UGRR discussion and, I fear, the subconscious condescension it implies to African-Americans?
Nobody bridled when scholars like Brackman and Horton and others demonstrated that the earliest American quilts did not arise from dire need, made of bits and pieces of worn clothing, but from affluence and leisure. I suspect others felt as I did when they first opened the pages of “Quiltmaking in America: Beyond the Myths,” one of the most influential books in my own life and, I suspect, in t he lives of other women intereste d in quilt study—empowerment.
Under the section on “Quilts and Quiltmakers in Early America,” the authors characterize their goals and the proper means to those goals. This is what they write:
>”Instead of relying on rmantic myths about the early development of quilts in American culture, these chapters are based on a thorough examination of women’s diaries, estate inventories, and industrial records to uncover the crafts more factual history.”
This is the way historians and scholars must proceed. In that sentence, I recognized that contemporary quilt study was scholarship. It made me proud. I empowered me.
Truth with a small “t”—-or reality or fact—-properly is relative to one thing and only one thing—- evidence.
With apologies for length,
Gail Ingram
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Newbie — agree about the to-clean-or-not-to-clean options, especially when heirloom and priceless textiles are involved. One thing which I keep forgetting to ask this group is how you sanitize old quilts which you don’t want to clean or which can’t be immersed for various reasons. While top and backing be dusted, how do you know what lurks in the batting that might be germy or crawling??? Are there treatments to sterilize a quilt overall, so to speak. I ask this because whenever I get antique and old bisque dolls with stuffed bodies whether sawdust/horsehair or cotton or wool batting there’s not much I can do about what’s inside and keep my finger crossed I never find roaming insects in doll cabinets. So that got me to wondering about how quilters manage the batting problem.
From: Barb Garrett <bgarrett421@>
An announcement just came through on another list I’m on about a quilt show in Connecticutt next weekend. There is a free lecture on Saturday by Elly Sienkiewicz entitled — What Is This Fascination With Baltimore Album Quilts? I heard this talk when she visited the Baltimore Museum of Art in January and very much enjoyed it. I thought there might be someone from New England who would be interested since she will be “in the area”.
This is the link for information — http://www.clamshellquiltguild.org/events.html
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:45:30 -0500 | From: Gail Ingram <gingram@>
Newbie,
Did your group test “Restoration”? (I’m afraid of the answer<g>)
I have used this product on two quilts that simply had to be washed—trust me on this—and it worked better for me than any other such product I’ve used. I did not leave the quilts in so long as recommended and used less of the product than recommended. I also have an extra long bath tub that made the many, many rinses simpler to accomplish.
So tell me: should I expect immediate deterioration?!
Gail
From: Anne Copeland <anneappraiser1@>
I think it is interesting that those on this list writing in opposition to what I wrote about truth are making an assumption about the authors’ intentions in writing Hidden in Plain View. Who on this list has fully discussed this with the authors and has had them tell you in person their intentions in writing the book? What if their goal was to write an interesting book full of might have been’s and could have been’s? I have seen nowhere in the book a place where the authors come right out and assert that what they are saying is total truth. They never seem to make a definitive statement anywhere about any of these things. They simply seem to be telling a story, and one that for whatever reasons, has become very popular. There is no “law” except perhaps that put forth by the quilt history police that every book written has to be factual. Boy, if that is the case, we better go back and rewrite all the state quilt history books, and most of the other quilt history books that were written in the past, for our knowledge has changed, hasn’t it? So does that mean that what we thought was objective evidence or “truth” yesterday is no longer objective evidence today?
I have put forth some thoughts as to why Hidden in Plain View MIGHT BE popular, and some of you oppose those ideas, but do you really KNOW that for a “fact” any more surely than I do? I think as an experiment, it also would be interesting to interview a large number of the people who really like the book and ask them what it is about it that causes them to like it so much. Why do people like to associate antique quilts with the Civil War?
I remember an exhibit that came out with an accompanying book called Who’d a Thought It? The same kind of uproar accompanied that book and exhibit, and the author disappeared and to my knowledge, has not been heard from again. I heard him speak once and a number of us talked with him after the lecture. I didn’t get that he was trying intentionally to mislead anyone at all. What I got was that he somehow came to the conclusion that “unstructured” quilts were associated with a particular culture, and that his sampling was confined to a local group of women. So perhaps he didn’t do his homework, but at the same time, he did what he believed at that time. We all grow and change our ideas over time, and perhaps he has too. But at that time, it was his belief. We can always improve on something, but to assume that a person is doing some terrible thing to society because that person wrote a book seems like an injustice to me when you are not really even certain what the person’s vision of the book was.
Judy, what you said about weight may be true for you, but if others choose to believe it because they want to believe that they CAN actually lose the weight, then that is what they will believe, and that becomes their truth. Albeit you may still be a whale, but if they are disillusioned because of their “incorrect beliefs,” then they will learn that some things work and some things don’t. On the other hand, just because it didn’t work for you is no guarantee that it won’t work for someone else. We can’t possibly know the physical and mental makeup of each and every individual, and what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for someone else. There is also the possibility that others do not even see you as fat. That is YOUR idea that your weight is a problem.
At the bottom of the refutes is the thought that your truths are really the only truths and that the only truth is objective truth. Boy, do I wish that were true! We all see life from our own perspective, and while we say we are documenting the truth by checking the references and other means to support that truth, we need to realize that each person who writes about anything is seeing it from behind his/her own rose colored glasses, and even some of the most “objective” writing shows little prejudices (nothing racial implied here) that creep in.
So the fact that something is objective doesn’t make it “true” for each and every one of us or even each and every instance in the same way. Objective is something we construct with our own minds so that we can create order in the universe in the ways that we believe are correct. Even really “objective” conditions such as hot and cold are subject to a person’s sensitivity to those conditions. And to say it is objective truth because it has been proven by standards. Who set those standards to start with? What makes that person’s beliefs so much more “right” or “true” than my own ideas? Even in science and medicine, an experiment works or doesn’t work because it is performed in a certain way or a certain set of ways. But it doesn’t mean that it is forever the ONLY way something will work or not work. Our knowledge of the universe is always changing as we continually test what we know to see if it is still true for us.
I agree with the idea that we should always try to understand and learn the truth of any historical or other account, but I think we should also always realize that even “objective facts” come from the observations of human beings, and all human beings are shaped by many things in their environment–the way they are brought up, the way they learn in school, their life experiences, their physical conditions, and a myriad of other circumstances. “Evidence” is also constructed by human beings; that is to say, it isn’t evidence until we declare it as such.
We all are using the same language, but the images in our heads may be entirely different for each descriptive word we use. For example, if I say tree, you understand a sense of “tree ness,” but your actual image of a tree can be entirely different from mine, especially if you live on one end of the earth and I live on the other. And we can’t even say that all trees have wood trunks because the “evidence” shows us something different. We can look at a tree together and agree that it is a tree, but you will never see or sense the world through my eyes or senses, and I will never see or sense the world through yours.
The important thing here is that I think the authors should be given a chance to speak their minds, and if their purpose was to write an entertaining book but not a 100% (if there is such a thing) factual book, then they accomplished their purpose. It gives us all something to think about, and for some perhaps a purpose in life. Peace and blessings, Annie —-__JNP_000_2747.1b10.239c–
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Dear Annie:
What a long message! You’ve been thinking about this for a while, I can see.
I have to agree that everyone experiences the world in a unique way. As far as “truth” goes, just look at religion. Everyone feels that their system of belief or non-belief in a higher power is the “right” set of notions.
The ultimate “truth” is one’s own perception of the truth? Is that a good interpretation of what you’ve said? Interesting concept!
As far as the HIPV book, we have speculated endlessly about the contents, etc. Since at least one of the authors is reported to be a silent member of this list, it would be wonderful to hear some comments from that person(s). However, I can understand how silence is a safer position. After all, who would want to get into a wrangle on the Internet when university positions (for both of them) could be at stake? How does someone begin to defend statements for which there is no visible, tangible, bite down hard on it, proof?
No, I don’t consider myself one of the quilt police…not at all. I just like my world to make sense and lately, I can tell you, there’s a whole lot I don’t understand about world happenings. I can’t even “go there”, as they say. Wars, genocide, pollution, global warming, environmental hazards created by industry, the danger of being sucked into the “Black Hole of the Universe”…you could drive yourself nutso thinking about stuff like that!
Most of the time, I prefer the sanctity of my own thoughts in my microcosmic, limited?, intellectual world. As I have grown older, I have come to more and more understanding of Emily Dickinson and her world. She would never come downstairs to greet company but would pass little notes of greeting down the stairwell in order to interact with visitors. I haven’t become that reclusive…yet, but I can see just how that could happen.
Annie, I don’t think that anyone has had a problem with /Hidden in Plain View/ from the standpoint of anyone’s right to write the book. What angers scholars and serious students of history and quilt history both, is that there are so many misrpresentations and/or unsubstantiated facts in the volume.
There are parts of the book I love! Those parts have to do with African symbols and traditions. Yes! We need more of that fascinating and wonderful information and we need to uplift the blacks of this country and praise them for the hard work, the sweat, the blood, and the tears that built this country. The suffering of this group has been intense. How humans love to persecute someone who is different…..for whatever frivolous reason seems handy, at the moment. She/he is too fat, too tall, too smart, too poor, too uneducated, the wrong religion, the wrong color, lives on the wrong side of the tracks….you fill in the blanks.
Respect. If we want it for ourselves, we have to be willing to give it, too. Respect, love, understanding.
Thank you, Annie. You always write from the heart and you have so much to share. I treasure all of your thoughts and I treasure you.
Pat 🙂
From: “Marcia Kaylakie” <marciark@>
Joan, For crawly things and such, I generally freeze the quilt or item in mind. Double wrap it in plastic with tape to seal it. Then off to the freezer for several weeks. It is also possible to use a zero freezer or a flash freezer if you have access to the facility, then a thorough vacuuming and quilte a bit will be taken care of. Marcia
Marcia Kaylakie, AQS Certified Appraiser Austin, TX www.texasquiltappraiser.com
From: “Newbie Richardson” <pastcrafts@>
I have no idea what the ingredients in “Restoration” are. It may well be another form of Orvus and Triton mixed ( anionic and nonionic) – which are the actual surfactants used by many textile conservationists. There may be some form of non- oxygenated bleach ( sodium perborate). It may be that what causes it to be so successful is that it makes the bath more alkaline ( a pH of 9 or 10 or even higher. (Orvus is a pH of 8) That means the fibers swell even more than with just the plain water, causng more “gunk” to be released – the longer term effects are that the fibers are even more fragile. You can try to get the full ingredient list from the manufacturer by going to their website and getting the manufacturer data sheet ( MDS). However, proprietory info does not have to be listed. Look, lets be clear about the “evils” of wet cleaning….we will not see any systemic negative effects with the naked eye for at least a generation – probably 2 generations. I have been in practice for over 28 years – in the town I grew up in. Christening clothes and wedding veils are coming back to me 25 years after I first treated them, to be put away for the “next” generation. So far, so good. It is up to the invidual collector, curator, caretaker to make the judgement that the short term objectives of increased awareness and appreciation by non-textile folks is worth the (possible) shortening of a textile’s life by improving it’s appearance. Let’s remember, there are an awful lot of quilts out there!!!! Not all textiles have the importance of Betsy Ross’ flag and Gen. Washington’s uniform. I think that even the most conservative preservationist would agree with that! Newbie in NO. VA – where we rescheduled our graduation party for after Hurricane Charley’s visit. Thank God for the freezer!
—–Original Message—– From: Gail Ingram Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 10:46 AM —
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Newbie and Gail — there was a discussion on Restoration sometime ago on VF list and one of the conservators said it was regular soap, nothing out of the ordinary and not as safe as Orvus. That doesn’t mean it didn’t clean as well or better, just that it was loaded with hi carbs so to speak. I agree about washing products and the lines we should or should not draw.
From: “Kathy Moore”
It sounds to me like Anne is talking about belief.
We’ve been talking about the truth of an event that is recent enough to set the record straight before it takes on “Biblical” proportions.
Enough said!
Kathy Moore
From: Dana at Material Pleasures <danabalsamo@>
I have used Restoration quite often with lots of success. It does “bubble” like an oxy cleaner. Container says it contains no acids, chlorine, or phospates. It should not be used on silks or wools. But it takes the yellow out of cotton and linen like nothing I have ever seen before in no time at all. Really whitens the whites. For silks and delicated I like to use Joan Kiplinger’s recommendation of Perk www.twinpines.com. Also whitens and brightens, needs to soak for much longer though, sometimes a week. But it smells so much nicer than Restoration, too. I usually only use these cleaners on small textiles, they are expensive. I have both containers handy if anyone needs more info. My best, Dana
From: Judy Kelius <quilts@>
Restoration contains sodium perborate. I use it frequently and it works great, especially on 20th century textiles.
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Marcia — I’ve heard of that method for fabrics but never thought about it as a means for quilts. 🙁 There was a study done by conservators several years back about freezing, especially cold storage for furs, which revealed that it doesn’t take much below 65 degrees to kill bugs and their babes, and that freezing could be harmful to textiles. I will have to dig this article out; it’s a printout from the Texcons list. But maybe Newbie has encountered this topic and is more up to date on this theory.
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Dana — I totally forgot about PERK and Boost which are museum recommended!! Have used them for 24 years for stain removal and they can be used on all fibers. For some reason the quilt world has not heard about them but the formula was originally developed for curators at doll museums and other museums with doll departments to clean antique and valuable doll costumes. It is quite effect. I believe Boost has added amount of sodium perborate but it does just as the label states.
Dana at Material Pleasures wrote:
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Marcia — forget what I said about textile cold storage. Just checked the museum study and it’s solely for fur garments and mammal skins. So carry on with your freezer.
From: “J. G. Row” <JudyGrow@>
I’ve been told that it takes a double freeze to make sure the critters are dead. Many can survive a single freeze, but none can survive a double freeze. I’ve been in the storage facility of one museum where the very first thing you see when you walk in the door is a deep chest freezer.
http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/preserv/navajo_txtl.shtml
I copied the following paragraph from the above web site. “The Arizona State Museum recommends the freezing method to control insect infestations in artifact collections. The museum was first to utilize this technique which has come into common use by museums throughout the world. The process involves: 1) containment of the textile in a plastic bag and removal of as much air as possible before tying the bag closed (the bag contains the infestation and prevents condensation on the textiles when it is removed from the freezer), 2) placement of the bagged textile in a freezer that is capable of going down to below freezing, at least -4° F, (a chest freezer is preferred as the critical low temperature remains more consistent), 3) freezing the textile for 48 hours (the door to the freezer should not be opened during the process as this will upset the temperature). 4) after removal from the freezer the plastic bag should remain closed until the textile has reached room temperature (condensation will form on the outside of the plastic bag rather than on the textile), 5) the process should be repeated to insure that the insect egg, larvae and adult stages have been killed, and 6) after final removal from the plastic bag the textile should be carefully vacuumed to remove insect debris. This non-chemical process is very effective and is safe for Navajo textiles.”
From: Dana at Material Pleasures <danabalsamo@>
I have heard that freezing is not recommended for quilts that might possibly be contaminated with mold…it can make the mold problem worse. The only quilts I freeze are those that have come from ‘questionable’ sources and anything with wool. My best, Dana
