February 21 – 25, 1999
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Hidden in Plain View Revisited — Members continue debating the UGRR quilt-code book, comparing it to a History Channel special that never mentioned quilts, and the discussion widens into the Australian “prisoners quilt” and its questionable provenance.
- Log Cabin Quilt History — Xenia Cord and Bobbie Aug trade documented early examples of Log Cabin quilts, including a somber piece made from bunting used at Lincoln’s funeral procession.
- Dating Classes and Quilt Camp — Audrey Waite announces Eileen Trestain’s fabric-dating class at Quilt Camp in the Pines, and members discuss displaying orphan quilt blocks. (see the article on dating quilts)
- Appraisal and Provenance Questions — Members discuss what to pay for a recently-quilted antique top, and laurel horton puzzles over dating a three-generation South Carolina family quilt collection. (see the article on quilt appraisers)
- New Members and Press Inquiries — Anne Copeland introduces herself as a new AQS-certified appraiser, and a Kansas City Star reporter researching a quilt-patterns book asks the list for background.
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:27:53 EST | From: WileneSmth@
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:17:28 -0500 | From: “jawhite@”<JAWHITE@
list<QHL@ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I wasn’t going to say anything, but since the subject has been opened, I agree 100% about this book. My main question about this book is: why did Ozella Williams feel the need to tell a perfect stranger, someone she had never laid eyes on before, about this quilt code after all these years? If this is something that has been handed down orally in families, you’d think we would have heard about by now. The authors didn’t back up the book with enough research. While there is an extensive bibliography listed in the back of the book, there were statements made (supposedly statements of fact) within the book itself that were never attributed to anyone or any research. If you are going to state something as true fact, it must be backed up with research. The bibliography is quite extensive (and very interesting) for such a small book. I also think that there were no directions obtained from the suggested quilt patterns/quilts that couldn’t have been obtained from observing the night sky at the time. Dr. Gladys Marie Fry wrote an excellent monograph on Harriet Powers; yet this was never mentioned. I was left with the feeling that the authors were trying really hard to force a point and just didn’t quite make it. I’m not saying the premise isn’t true – I am saying that much more good research needs to be done. Judy White – Ct More and more we have come to realize how much of “History” is biased opinion…very little or none was ever written about the African American roles in American history…in the military, in the world of inventions and education….but to overcompensate by printing more fictionalized history..is not the answer… The freeing and rescuing of slaves came about because of Abolitionist activists….not by quilts hanging on fences…and to tell the descendents of slaves that it was anything else..does not do anything to help them understand the underground RR movement… when I first heard about the review of “Hidden in Plain Sight”, in USA Today… stating that an old African American women chose a quilt customer to tell all of this “valuable” information…I wrote to QHL saying it had the taint of hoax about it… I know that racism runs rampant in this country and History has always short changed the minorities living in this country…. But “pretend” history is not the answer… jean jquilt@
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:21:10 -0600 (Central Standard Time) | From: Mary
Persyn<MARY.PERSYN@ Message-ID:<SIMEON.9902221110.D@ Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Have any of you seen this year’s issue of “Vintage Quilts”, the magazine issue from ??? (I’m at work and the mag is at home) containing pictures of old quilts and how to reproduce them? I remember we discussed last year’s issue on line. Anyway, this years issue has an Amish quilt that is all churn dash blocks except one crown of thorns? block and the article says it is a typical example of not wanting to make a perfect quiilt. To my way of thinking the magazine is perpetuating the myth. There are some lovely quilts pictured in the magazine, but again they did not give any information about the provenance of the quilts or much other information of a historical nature. I have some questions about the information they did give also. I think that detracts from the magazine (but didn’t stop me from buying it, of course. :+)) There are articles by Bev Dunivant (hope I spelled the name right) on crazy quilts, Anita Schakelford (ditto as to spelling) on collecting old quilts, and ??? (another senior moment). Now returning to lurkdom, Mary in sunny and cold Valparaiso, IN Mary Persyn (219) 465-7830 Email: Mary.Persyn@ Law Librarian School of Law Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383 FAX: (219) 465-7917 –
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:38:52 -0800 | From: Anne Scott <nzquilter@>
Australian quilt historian and founder of the Australian Quilt Study Group Margaret Rolfe is an expert on these quilts. My information is from her excellent book Australian Quilt Heritage Published by JB Fairfax Press, 1998. Prison reformer Elizabeth Fry, a Quaker, organised for convict women to receive fabric and sewing needles etc so they could both be occupied on the long ship voyage and have something they could sell on landing in Australia. The quilts were indeed sold, not only in Australia. It appears that women on one ship, The Wellington, sold their quilts for a guinea each in Rio de Janeiro, en route to Australia. Convict women were supplied with “a small hessian bag that contained one piece of tape; one oz of pins; one hundred needles; four balls of white sewing cotton; one ditto black; one ditto blue; one ditto red; two balls of black worsted, half an oz each; twenty four hanks of coloured thread, one of cloth, with 8 darning needles and one small bodkin fastened on it; two stay laces; one thimble; one pair of scissors; one pair of spectacles, when required; two lbs of patch-work pieces.” Elizabeth Fry’s work in the prisons dates from 1816 through until her death in 1843. Elizabeth Fry was responsible for supplying convict women on 106 ships which made their way to Australia during this time. Over 12,000 women were among the passengers. Most of the quilts were utilitarian and doubtless have long since disappeared. The most famous prison quilt is the Rajah quilt, discovered in 1980 in Scotland and subsequently purchased by the National Gallery of Australia. It was stitched by the convict women on board the Rajah as a thank you for Elizabeth Fry. It remains unquilted, medallion style with a broderie perse central block. It is 325 cm x 337 cm – a very large quilt top. I too have been watching this quilt on auction with interest and would suspect the correct dating, if it is indeed a convict quilt would be more likely to be between 1820-1845. None of the convict ships came to New Zealand. Anne Scott Editor & Publisher New Zealand QUILTER magazine Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:43:49 -0500 | From: “Judy Grow” <Judygrow@>
>would not make their (item) >perfect, as only Mohammed was perfect. This was on Discovery/TLC, and I >meant to remember everything, but …………It was PBS, “Antiques Roadshow”, and >whichever middle-eastern tribe had woven the rug they were appraising (the rug >was HUGE). The man appraising stated that they wouldn’t use matching dye >lots of yarn to create the piece, because only Mohammed was perfect and >capable of making perfection. And as the years went on, the dye lots >would fade differently, making the differences even more noticeable (the >rug in question had blue sections that were two different shades of the >same color). Alan, I saw that show too. I don’t remember hearing the appraiser speak about perfection, etc., but I do remember him speaking about the different dye lots. The correct term for shades of the same color in an Oriental rug is “abrash.” Remember that many of those rugs, especially the smaller Caucasian rugs were woven by nomadic people. They were able to buy or dye only small quantities of wool, and so the different dye lots would show up immediately in the rug. It is not particularly something that would show up with time. The rug on PBS was a Kirman I think, woven in Northern Iran. Because of its size I doubt if it was woven by nomadic people, and I doubt if many men knotted many knots in it. Because of the great number of knots psi usually women and young girls (whose fingers were smaller) knotted rugs on huge vertical looms, three and four women to a row. I am sure Maury will correct me if I am wrong (please). Judy in Ringoes, NJ judygrow@
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:11:49 -0600 | From: Mark Kriss <mkriss@> (by way of Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrs@>)
Thanks very much for all the interest in and comments about the Australian Prison Quilt from Diana Leone’s collection. Based on your questions and concerns, Diana has contacted several quilting experts and historians in Australia who might assist in dating the quilt more precisely. At this point, she’s placing it in the 1860-1880 range. If you have any information or sources of documentation that might be relevant, please send it to Diana directly at dianaleone@. As soon as she has more information, it will be posted to the QHL list as well as at http://www.quiltcollector.com/prisoner.htm Best regards, –Mark Kriss + – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – + Mark Kriss <mkriss@> Quiltcollector.com Online Quilt Auctions for Discriminating Buyers www.quiltcollector.com phone 650.857.9035 + – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – +
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:15:01 EST | From: ZegrtQuilt@
Content-transfer-encoding 7bit re Australian quilt I have really appreciated everyone’s comments about the auction of the Australian quilt. For me, the most important part is that it was quilted in 1996. It is not an 1880 quilt if it was quilted in 1996. It is an 1880 top quilted in 1996.That alone changes the value dramatically, in my humble opinion. Shelly Zegart
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:29:15 +0000 | From: Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@>
Dear Shelly, Re log cabin quilts. The earliest documention (I mean documentation supporting the date), according to my research, is 1850. Bobbie A. Aug ZegrtQuilt@ wrote > re Australian quilt > > I have really appreciated everyone’s comments about the auction of the > Australian quilt. For me, the most important part is that it was quilted in > 1996. It is not an 1880 quilt if it was quilted in 1996. It is an 1880 top > quilted in 1996.That alone changes the value dramatically, in my humble > opinion. Shelly Zegart
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:44:58 -0500 | From: “Peggy O’Connor” <mnoc@>
One of the things I’ve wondered is what should one expect to pay for an antique top that has been recently quilted, versus what the piece would cost if the top had been quilted at the time it was made. Price surely depends on the rarity of the top itself, but does the quilting or its detail play much of a role in this case? Any opinions? Peggy in NC, where the forecasted snowstorm has produced not one flake
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:06:00 -0700 | From: “Jeanne.Fetzer” <Jeanne.Fetzer@>
Dear Friends I just turned in a reservation (my nephew is getting married in San = Francisco the same week) at the Best Western Paducah Inn for April 18 – = 23 (check out on April 24, 1999). The phone number is 502-443-2323. If = you call the 800 number they will tell you it is all booked. If you = hurry and need a room, you may be able to get this reservation. The = room is a single king bed for one person. If they tell you they are = full, mention my name (Jeanne Fetzer) and see if you can have the room. = I will be jealous all that week, but try to put on a smile at my = nephew’s wedding (27 yr. old handsome boy with a killer smile).
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:12:08 -0600 (CST) | From: Carol H Elmore <celmore@>
Does anyone know the e-mail address for Cheryl Phillips who wrote Wedgeworks. I need to contact her as soon as possible. Carol Elmore
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:20:28 +0000 | From: Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@>
CC QHL@ Subject: Re QHL Cheryl Phillips Message-ID: <36D3FC9B.91F80DD1@> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol, Cheryl is from over on the Western Slope. Haven’t seen her in awhile and I don’t think she is a current member of The Colorado Quilting Council, but I will email Membership Chair and get back to you. Bobbie Carol H Elmore wrote > Does anyone know the e-mail address for Cheryl Phillips who wrote > Wedgeworks. I need to contact her as soon as possible. > Carol Elmore
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:38:41 +0800 | From: Kath Balfour <balfourk@>
I’ve checked out the website about the Australian “prisoners” quilt, too, which starts with a mission statement about trust and goodwill,and ends with a seal of authenticity. I agree with Jean Eitel. For the casual collector like me, there are many very obvious warning signals from the outset that something is amiss — the terminology (“convict” was the term of the day), the dates, the story about how the quilt was supposedly made, and, glaringly, the omission of any description of the materials, etc. What is heartbreaking is the suspicion that there may have been something historically worthwhile to start with, before the “expert” hastened its demise by assembling, repairing, and quilting out any authenticity or value the original piece(s) may have had. (Sigh) Another real story lost to history…now THAT’S criminal! Taken on face value (is there any other way, on an internet auction?) anyone should conclude that, as we say in Australia, someone is having a lend of us. Meaning it sounds like total fabrication (pardon the pun). Caveat emptor. Now when I hear the name Diane Leone, of course I will associate it with this dubious episode. Jean also speculated the quilt may have been made later, possibly on a bride ship. <No doubt “brides” were sent to Australia long after prison ships stopped, and if these women were brides for the male settlers of Australia maybe they were not prisoners at all. There, that is my addition to the oral history mis-information. Anyone else?> From: the late 19th century, it was well advertised in the British Isles that there were opportunities for women in the Australian colonies. Women came of their own free will and took their chances when they got here. The colonies were poorly populated, and they were keen to advertise their attractions to entice settlement. My friend has written a biography of her grandmother, a Scottish woman working as a domestic servant in England, who came to Perth in 1900 on a ship mostly filled with single women. She had kept a diary aboard ship, and such documents from working class women are very rare indeed. The diary is wonderful, and tells of her 6 weeks adventure in her own words, and her hopes and dreams. No quilting, but certainly there was needlework to while away the hours at sea. She went to the goldfields to work as a hotel maid, met an Irishman recently arrived by way of Chicago, and eventually went farming. He died, leaving her with 6 little kids to rear and a farm to work by herself. She kept the diary in her trunk, never writing another word once she got here. She died in the 1950s. Now my friend is making a pictorial quilt called Maggie’s Story, after her grandmother. 1999 is the centenery of women’s suffrage in Western Australia, and there will be a big exhibition of quilts depicting Western Australian women and their accomplishments. cheers Kath Balfour
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:34:45 -0500 | From: laurel horton <kalmia@>
Here’s something to puzzle over I’ve been working with a collection of 16 quilts made by three generations within an extended family in South Carolina. In preparation for taking down a physical description of each one, I was spending some time just looking at each one before I wrote anything. I was examining one, called “Sunflower” by an earlier owner, which is similar to a number of “Mariner’s Compass” variations, having a circle in the center surrounded by four concentric rings of points. The fabrics are, from the center out, a yellow print, red solid, green print, and blue floral print. A very nice example of a pieced quilt from the 3rd quarter, 19th century, I thought. Then I counted the points, expecting 12 or maybe 16. There are 11 points. Even though the needlework seemed very exact, I thought maybe one of the sunflowers might have been “off,” so I checked the other blocks–each of them has 11 points. Now I’ve looked at a lot of quilts over the years, but I don’t remember anything quite like this. I can’t think of any reason that someone would have intentionally laid out a pattern with this degree of difficulty–unless she wanted to impress others with her drafting and piecing skills. But even then, the effect is so subtle that it would be easy to miss the fact that this is not your typical circle-divided-into-60-degree-segments. It’s clear that the formation of 11-point rings is quite intentional. All of the hand-pieced points are evenly spaced. This makes me wonder if there were earlier quilts like this which I didn’t examine closely enough to detect similar anomalies. Has anyone else seen quilts, blocks, photos, or descriptions of quilts with radiating pieced designs which have an unusual number of points? Or can anyone suggest the significance of the number 11? Laurel Horton
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:11:27 -0800 | From: Audrey Waite <awquiltr@>
CC QHL@ Laurel Check out The Smithsonian Treasury AMERICAN QUILTS, p. 48. The Groom’s Quilt by Benoni Pearce. This quilt was made in 1850 and look at the stars in the bottom row. The second block from the left has 13 points! The star in the middle has 9 points. Maybe they had better drafting tools in the 1850’s! I did volunteer work at the Smithsonian in 1980-81 and did some conservation on this quilt for an exhibit at the Renwick. I noticed the odd number of star points then, so I’m happy to hear that Benoni wasn’t the only one making “funky” stars. By the way the Smithsonian thought Benoni was a woman until some relatives came to see the quilt and told them Benoni was a MAN! Audrey Waite in sunny Sedona, AZ
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:31:38 -0000 | From: “Anne Copeland” <anneappraiser@>
Hello to all. I am Anne Copeland, an AQS certified quilt appraiser, quilt historian, quilt restoration person, and co-founder of Repiecers of the Past, a quilt study/quilt restoration group in Southern California. I am interested in all historical subjects related to quilts, and in just about every type of quilts. I have a collection of quilts myself, and have also done quilting, though I am not going to be one of the world’s great quilters. I am so happy to be a part of this discussion group, and look forward to getting e-mail from each and every one. Oh yes, I am also an animal and plant lover, and have more than my share of each. I hope to hear from some of my old friends here too, people I haven’t heard from in ages. Cheers, Anne Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://personal.lycos.com
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:19:00 PST | From: “diana leone” <dianaleone@>
Content-type text/plain I appreciate the information Kath Balfour has contributed to the on-going discussion about the Australian Quilt Top. With respect to the specific issues raised, here are some replies 1) First some background about the piece. I purchased the top from a dealer in NYC about 10 years ago. It was in fairly good condition. I had the top restored, carefully, and had the quilt top finished. We used the best fabrics available for the restoration. The top was assembled with the best batting and backing I could find that I felt did not distract from the original. The quilt was very finely hand quilted. This took over a year to complete. I feel, as a person who cares very much about the preservation and integrity of quilts, that what I did to this top did not ruin it but preserved it for a longer period of time. Certainly it is not the way it may have been finished in Australia, but it was done with care and love and not to offend. I do feel that the best place for this piece is back to Australia to some Museum or the like. 2) My words, prisoner instead of convict, while being wrong from the Australian end, were entirely my error. I was told a brief story about the quilt when I was in Melbourne. I now realize that the information was sketchy at best. So, most of all, I appreciate all your help and diligence in finding out more about this work. Any further documentation is appreciated. It is spectacular and a treasure. Meanwhile, again my thanks for correcting me so willingly. The web site quiltcollector.com is going to be a great vehicle for us all, to learn, to share and to hopefully bridge some gaps. My best to you, Diana Leone
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:48:36 +0000 | From: Bobbie Aug <qwltpro@>
Laurel, Give us a few more clues such as the overall size of the piece. Were the colors representative of Pennsylvania Dutch quilts? Were their borders? Did the red print have black stems and leaves and yellow flowers? What color green? I’m looking at the quilt from an age point of view and not from the significance of the number 11. For all we know, perhaps there were 11 children. Bobbie A. Aug laurel horton wrote > To QHL, and beyond, > > Here’s something to puzzle over > > I’ve been working with a collection of 16 quilts made by three generations > within an extended family in South Carolina. In preparation for taking > down a physical description of each one, I was spending some time just > looking at each one before I wrote anything. I was examining one, called > “Sunflower” by an earlier owner, which is similar to a number of “Mariner’s > Compass” variations, having a circle in the center surrounded by four > concentric rings of points. The fabrics are, from the center out, a yellow > print, red solid, green print, and blue floral print. A very nice example > of a pieced quilt from the 3rd quarter, 19th century, I thought. Then I > counted the points, expecting 12 or maybe 16. There are 11 points. Even > though the needlework seemed very exact, I thought maybe one of the > sunflowers might have been “off,” so I checked the other blocks–each of > them has 11 points. > > Now I’ve looked at a lot of quilts over the years, but I don’t remember > anything quite like this. I can’t think of any reason that someone would > have intentionally laid out a pattern with this degree of > difficulty–unless she wanted to impress others with her drafting and > piecing skills. But even then, the effect is so subtle that it would be > easy to miss the fact that this is not your typical > circle-divided-into-60-degree-segments. It’s clear that the formation of > 11-point rings is quite intentional. All of the hand-pieced points are > evenly spaced. > > This makes me wonder if there were earlier quilts like this which I didn’t > examine closely enough to detect similar anomalies. Has anyone else seen > quilts, blocks, photos, or descriptions of quilts with radiating pieced > designs which have an unusual number of points? Or can anyone suggest the > significance of the number 11? > > Laurel Horton
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:27:24 -0600 | From: DSefton@
Hello. My name is Dru Sefton and I’m a reporter with The Kansas City Star newspaper in Kansas City, Mo., home of the famous quilt patterns. Right now I’m at work on a book about the patterns, the first that will be published by The Star. I’m on the lookout for quilters around the country who take a special interest in the Star patterns (perhaps they’ve quilted dozens of them, or have collected all the patterns) as well as photographs of quilters and quilting bees from the 1930s through the late 1950s. I’ve been in contact with the (very helpful!) Central Oklahoma Quilters Guild, as well as Dorothymae Groves in Kansas City and Wilene Smith in Wichita, Kan., all of whom compiled the patterns into books. If anyone out there has any suggestions on my project – especially photograph sources – I’d be very grateful to hear from you. You may post back to the list or e-mail me directly at dsefton@. Thanks in advance! Regards, Dru
