March 25 – 28, 2006
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Finding a Magazine Antiques Article from 1998 — A member seeks the December 1998 issue and gets page numbers and offers from museum library holders.
- Mammy Imagery and the Words We Use — A thread on Mammy quilt designs turns into a long debate about historical images, offensive terms, and how to discuss them.
- Bears and Quilts, Continued — The bear stories carry on with jokes about hostas, kudzu, and stew.
- Copyright and Antique Labels — Members discuss whether a copyright holds on an old pattern and how to answer sellers who list new quilts as antiques.
- Toiles and a Missing Quilt Found — Pat Cummings is congratulated on a toile article, and Laura Fisher reports the missing motto quilt has turned up.
- Textile Thesaurus and Henry VIII’s Quilts — Announcements of the Textile Museum Thesaurus join a side thread on how quilts and quilted clothing were used in the 1500s.
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 15:12:32 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram <gingram@>
I have no bear stories, merci dieu. Yet, we have been reintroducing black bears into Louisiana for a while now. First in the Tensas (ten saw) swamp area where Teddy Roosevelt found his bear cub. By now, farmers and cattlemen are becoming a little concerned, especially since the state is debating reintroducing the Eastern Panther. My question is this: do bear eat deer and if so, do they also eat hostas and daylilies?
I’m on my coffee break in a day of gardening and thought I would note a non-ugrr myth currently in circulation. Garden Centers report the rumor that gardeners are not buying pine bark mulch this spring, claiming it has come from South Louisiana trees downed in Katrina and Rita and that it can spread the Formosan termites that currently have plagued New Orleans for years now.
Be assured that is not so. First of all, all lumber that leaves South Louisiana areas where this termite has been seen must be treated with something that kills termite eggs and termite alike. Second, none of the timber from those areas is used for mulch or has been used for mulch. And officials are serious about inspections and limitations, not wanting these pests to get beyond them and damage the state timber industry.
Independent garden shops that sell in bulk will tell you the source of their product, and bagged pinebark mulch should be labeled with the origin of the product.
The termites in question are awful. They reproduce more often than regular termites and produce more eggs than the North American variety (so very Louisiana). People in the vicinity of New Orleans swear they can eat a house down in a day.
They were brought into the country after WW II on a ship that made stops in Galveston, N.O., and Charleston.
On my way to plant some roses, Gail Ingram
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:14:27 -0500 | From: “Karen Evans”
Does anyone have a copy of the December 1998 issue of the Magazine Antiques? I can’t locate my copy, which was the one with the article by Maggie Lidz on the 17th century silk quilts, and I desperately need a page number for my Kalamazoo paper.
Thanks in advance for any help people can give…I have the *text* on-line, but I’d prefer to cite from the original article. Help?
Karen Evans ——=_NextPart_000_0004_01C65027.30BA9A40–
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:24:53 -0500 | From: “Lynne Z. Bassett” <lzbassett@>
Aha! I found it! Took me a half hour of digging, but I finally came up with it. Maggie’s article is on pp.834-843. Is there something more specific that you need, Karen?
Best, Lynne
Does anyone have a copy of the December 1998 issue of the Magazine Antiques? I can’t locate my copy, which was the one with the article by Maggie Lidz on the 17th century silk quilts, and I desperately need a page number for my Kalamazoo paper.
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:50:12 -0500 | From: “Karen Evans”
Oh, you’re a lifesaver! *notes down page numbers*
There’s just one thing further thing I need: on which page does Maggie speculate that the silk quilts came from Chios rather than India? I can visualize it but I can’t for the life of me find the issue to get the exact page number.
Thanks so much – I owe you one –
Karen
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 19:38:43 EST | From: Jccullencrew@
Yet, we have been reintroducing black bears into Louisiana for a while now. My question is this: do bear eat deer and if so, do they also eat hostas and daylilies?
Hi Gail, I’m in New Jersey and we have several hundred bears in our area. Fact is, last fall the state had a bear hunt to cull the number near us. Last spring we had a bear that loved the area because my neighbor has about 10 bird feeders filled to the brim with sunflower seeds. Which, of course, he raided every night and when that ran out, he moseyed over to our yard and knocked down ours which was up high on a 4×4 post, which he snapped like a green bean. We have pictures of him sprawled on the ground munching happily away at the seed. Ruined a $40 feeder, too, the big brute. A while later we found out “he” was a “she” when she brought her cub into the yard (looking larger than what I thought a cub should be). We opened the door to the deck to look out, but when they came down the stairs, the door promptly closed (I got goosebumps) even though one swipe and the glass door would cave in. Let’s say that they eat seeds, fruit, and animals like rabbits, llamas, or sheep left out when they’re hungry. They eat anything they want but not deer, unfortunately. Deer are the bane of our existence here. They eat all the plants, twigs and shrubs they want, even those on the “not attractive to deer” list. They LOVE hosta, yucca, impatience, marigolds, day lilies, junipers and tree bark, but have not eaten the astilbe, echinasia, coral bells, or primrose–so guess what we have a lot of in our garden. They’re also cheeky and look in your back windows and don’t move an inch when you approach them. They also stink to high heaven when they get close. About ten years ago I started planting fake flowers in our barrels by the street and every year they upend them the first few days they’re out. Later I sneak in real flower in between the fake, and they don’t seem to bother them. Imagine playing games with the animals like this, but it’s what you do when you’re a flower lover in an overpopulated deer area. As far as quilting goes, no bear paw or anything else related to bears for me, although I will consider appliquing or embroidering a bear shape on a block for the one hunter in the family. Good luck with your bears and panthers. Just stay alert for rustling sounds if you’re in your yard or in the woods. Ask me how I know and how I got a few more gray hairs… Carol Grace
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:21:52 EST | From: RAGLADY@
If they (bears) do eat hostas and daylilies – wonder if they would like KUDZU? If so, every state south of OH should import black bears asap as they are losing the war to this terrible, wicked, destructive imported weed.
Gloria raglady@ Jccullencrew@ writes: > Yet, we have been reintroducing black bears into Louisiana for a while > now. My question is this: do bear eat deer and if so, do they also eat hostas > and daylilies?
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:13:10 -0500 | From: “Lynne Z. Bassett” <lzbassett@>
p. 841.
🙂 Lynne
> There’s just one thing further thing I need: on which page does Maggie > speculate that the silk quilts came from Chios rather than India?
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:34:22 -0500 | From: “Fawn Valentine” <fawnvalentine@>
The idea that a bear paw pattern pieced block instructed soon-to-be fugitives from slavery is just as strange as all the other pattern names. Following bear tracks will likely lead to a bear den, not a good place to be.
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:27:30 -0800 (PST) | From: Joni Branscome <dechintabooks@>
Well, if you make a deer stew with sunflower seeds, kudzu and put some tasty gravy in it and put it in a big container, I’m sure the bears would eat it.
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:02:45 EST | From: MMiller138@
Karen…if you can wait until Tuesday I can check our Art Museum collection for the 1998 Antiques mag and find page numbers…..can’t guarantee we have it but I will certainly look. Unfortunately due to lack of space we have been purging mags but I don’t think Antiques has been touched yet! Mary Miller in Ohio
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:10:22 -0500 | From: “Karen Evans”
If you decide to get rid of the 1998 copies, I’d be more than happy to take it off your hands..:) I already have the page numbers thanks to Lynne, but I’m beginning to think that the actual copies have disappeared, so I might need a new copy at some point.
Thanks –
Karen
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:57:54 -0700 | From: “Cindy Hamilton” <cvermillion2@>
>QHL Digest for Saturday, March 25, 2006. Re: Cummings article “Toile de Jouy”
Congratulations to Pat Cummings for another great historical article on toiles in The Quilter Magazine, May 2006. I am always amazed and delighted to find her in-depth articles in such a mainstream quilter’s magazine. She’s doing a super job of encouraging the average quilter to become intrigued by the world of quilt history, and I thank her for that. Photographs of modern toiles will encourage people to collect them and recognize unusual ones when they become available. I especially appreciated the Eisenhower Toile, and am hoping to purchase some through ebay searches. If anyone has any for sale, please contact me. I would love to use some as a centerpiece in a medallion quilt. We’ve had enough bear stories, but I have a good one. We live with bears in our neighborhood. They appear around the house, on the porch, etc, with no warning. But the best story I have happened a few years ago when one wandered into the drugstore in town. The pharmacist looked up and saw him in the aisle, and in a calm voice told the lone shopping tourist that she quietly needed to exit the store because there was a bear in the next aisle over. The bear didn’t find what he was looking for, and he slowly ambled out after just a few minutes. Such is life in the mountains! Cindy V. Hamilton Pagosa Springs, CO
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:17:40 EST | From: Mitzioakes@
Top with a garnish of beautiful tulips and daffidills and you’ve got a gourmet dinner for those bears!!!!!! (oh, moose also like flowers!)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:48:11 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings <pat@>
— Cindy Hamilton <cvermillion2@> wrote:
> Congratulations to Pat Cummings for another great > historical article on > toiles in The Quilter Magazine, May 2006.
Thanks to Cindy for her very thoughtful note. It is always a treat to hear from appreciative readers!
Joan Kiplinger has very kindly shared the idea that the word “toile” should never stand alone because there are many “toiles de something,” as she put it. She provided a long list of French words for various types of toile fabric which, yesterday, she allowed me to reprint in my Quilter’s Muse Newsletter (free subscription with sign-up), online.
In dressmaking circles and in England, the word toile denotes muslin.
So, I guess from now on, we will have to say the whole phrase, “Toile de Juoy” fabric, when speaking of the traditional type of wood-blocked or copper-plate printed print fabrics made in Juoy-en-Josas, France, and elsewhere.
As always, I really enjoyed putting together the article, my 43rd for the magazine. Right now, I am working on my 45th submission. This year will mark the seventh year that I’ve been published by The Quilter magazine.
Writing is a wonderful way to share discoveries. I am a teacher because I am forever a student. As Cindy suggest, I hope that more people are drawn to an appreciation of the history of quilts due to what I have written.
Best wishes,
Pat Cummings www.@
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:51:38 -0800 | From: Chris Flynn <lovechris@>
Hello Pat and everyone! I love keeping up with the emails and hearing what everyone has to share. Here’s my situation:
In 2001 I purchased a redwork quiltop with 54 Mammy squares. I paid $500 for it! The seller said she found it in a basket of linens in an antique store in Grand Rapids Michigan. I took pictures of all the squares and created a pattern from this quilt, and through the years have sold quite a few of the patterns. (Pat I think you bought one a few years ago.) I’ve always been clear about where I got the images and that they were from a quilt I own.
Well, today I was thinking of relisting the patterns and low and behold, someone is selling the same set of images that she’s put into a digital format, plus, she “retains all copyrights to the selling of the designs”. She also stated “This pattern came from an actual redwork quilt done in the 30’s and was hand copied.” I had the quilt top appraised in Paduca in 2002 by Phyllis Twig, who stated that it was from a kit of the 1950’s.
Well, here’s her listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8145324040
My husband thinks I should just sell the quilt. I actually have a few redwork quilts that I made patterns from. Haven’t been selling them in a while. So I’m thinking of selling my collection piece at a time. I’m just afraid of losing money selling on Ebay.
Anyway…. I’m open to comments, opinions and best advice.
Thanks so much, Chris Flynn, Boulder Creek, CA
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:53:45 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings <pat@>
Dear Chris,
Seems like you have several questions related to your Mammy quilt designs. By the way, the only Mammy designs I have purchased have been actual pre-made appliqués. After I bought the designs made from feedsack, the seller cancelled the auction when she figured out who I am. Eventually, she did come through with the “goods.”
At the time, I saw nothing harmful with the images. I guess that during my life, unwittingly, I had become insensitized to such images after having seen similar ones on packages of Aunt Jemima pancake mix and syrup, etc.
Only recently did I discover a website that everyone should visit. Dr. David Pilgrim is the person responsible for establishing the Jim Crow Museum. In one of his essays, he tells how he smashed a “Mammy” salt shaker in his anger at the denigrating figure, to him a symbol of prejudice.
The museum is a collection of all sorts of items that belittle, demasculate, and villify black people. I am sure that he would welcome the donation of your quilt, were you to want to find a new home for it.
The link I’ve provided on my website states the following: “Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia on the campus of Ferris State University, Big Rapids, MI, http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/menu.htm Learn about stereotypical depictions through essays about Golliwog dolls, the Mammy caricature, and other well-written essays by Dr. David Pilgrim, sociology professor.”
As far as eBay patterns for Redwork, as I stated recently on my own list for Redwork, I believe that many of them are being fradulently offered. By that, I mean that the people who are claiming exclusive ownership to the patterns don’t own them. They could not. If the pattern was not made before 1923, it is not yet in the public domain. So, that rules out the 1930s.
Some patterns from the 1930s may be copyrighted if the copyright has been renewed, or claimed by family descendants, or if a work was made for hire, or if a contract passed those rights to a third party such as a publication.
There are many extenuating circumstances, of course. However, some people assume that because they found a set of newspaper clippings from a 1930s newspaper, it is okay to reproduce them and sell them. I’d like to see these same individuals try to file an official copyright and get one.
Right now, I would not touch a Mammy pattern with a ten foot pole. If this design image gives so much heartache that it would make a grown man become enraged and break things, then I’d say it’s a good time to move on to something else rather than a stereotypical design that inflicts so much psychological pain. Just my opinion.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I did buy another pattern from you. I think it was for the “Tootsy” quilt. I love to collect old designs…for the sake of historical record.
Best,
Pat Cummings
–
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:42:44 -0800 | From: “Alan”
I don’t think that the other woman can hold the copyright on a pre-existing pattern. Granted, the original copyright is probably null at this point. Her copyright would be on the patterns she sells. She would have to show she did more than just copy the images to retain the copyright to the imagery. Once the original copyright ends (I think that’s 70 yrs) it then becomes public domain. So go ahead and sell your pattern.
Alan
Alan R. Kelchner Mixed Media Textiles
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:23:07 EST | From: Cathydale1@
My mom has found a picture of my grandmother as a child and it has been transfered to fabric. The kicker is it was done in 1905 according to the info along with this block. Could anyone tell me about the process used and where I can find more info on it. I want to frame it, as is instead of puting it in a quilt. It is really cool and done on a light blue cotton too.
Quilting is a stitch and ment to be shared.
Cathy Glover Earlville, IL cathydale1@
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:46:52 -0800 (PST) | From: Kris Driessen <krisdriessen@>
Pat brings up an interesting point – the Mammy symbol wasn’t racist to her until someone told her it was. By arbitrarily assigning this value to a homey type design, we are giving an awful lot of power to this unknown someone. Wasn’t it Eleanor Roosevelt that said “Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent”?
Kris
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 05:27:41 -0800 (PST) | From: Anita Loscalzo <aloscalz@>
Hi, all,
Thank you for your support in our efforts to raise funds for conservation!
Here is this week’s eBay item(# 7402109098 ):
BUTTERFLY QUILT, c.1940-50
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7402109098&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/7402109098_W0QQfromZR40QQfviZ1
Anita
Anita B. Loscalzo, Curator New England Quilt Museum 18 Shattuck Street Lowell, MA 01852 ——– email: Curator@ telephone: 978-452-4207 Ext.
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:34:07 EST | From: MMiller138@
Karen…when I get to the Museum library on Tuesday I will check the holdings and see what’s there and we may be able to do a deal! Glad you got the page numbers, Mary in Ohio
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:06:06 +0000 | From: jocelynm@
I once addressed the issue of an obviously non-antique quilt being listed under ‘antiques’, and was told that Ebay tells sellers to list their ite ms under the most popular categories regardless of what the item is, beca use that way the listing is more likely to be seen by more people. I gave up after that. If Ebay tells people to do it, they’re obviously no t going to enforce correct listings!
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:35:51 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings <pat@>
Good morning:
I have had very little interaction with African-Americans in my lifetime. As a child, my mother gave me a doll that was some kind of printed plastic, with a boy doll on one side and a girl doll on the other side. I loved that doll! In fact, I refuse to see it as “rascist” at all, because I remember the time when to me, it was just another “material object,” with no assigned value of good or bad, and certainly not intended to teach bigotry.
I’ve been thinking more and more about David Pilgrim and his reaction to the Mammy salt shaker. He seems to view these types of items as caricatures that are demeaning in nature to his race. In his lifetime, I’m sure he has experienced more prejudice than I have, based on racial lines.
Previously, I recounted his anger, and his smashing the salt Mammy shaker to smithereens. Please keep in mind this psychological principle: Anger is not a primary emotion. It is a secondary one, based on fear and/or frustration. I suspect that the professor was totally frustrated and took out that emotion on the cute (to me) salt shaker.
Chris provided some photos of the Mammy Quilt in question. Though I cannot see it “close-up,” many of the images look like angry black women who are scowling.
Now, I wonder who first drew the designs for this quilt/or top, and what their motivation was. To celebrate the servitude of black servants? To make a social commentary, with a needle? There is information that goes deeper that we can easily examine. Perhaps, we will never know the answers to all of our questions.
As to inferior v. superior, I don’t think that is an issue in the case of this one very accomplished man who has had to struggle through the system to achieve recognition not only for himself but for his people and their history. Having a permanent exhibit of Black memorabilia in a University setting has to be a great accomplishment.
It has been a while since I visited his website, but he says something to the effect that he does not wish the ban of all material objects that depict Blacks in a negative way, he just wishes that people would stop making money selling them.
Have a terrific day!
Pat
–
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:41:10 -0800 | From: Chris Flynn <lovechris@>
Hi Pat…. I unearthed my appraisal last night. Phyllis Twigg appraised it in Paduca in April 2002. She wrote “This item appears to have been a pre-printed kit, such as the type available at “Five and Dime” stores.” She also thought it was circa 1945.
The second, smaller photo was really bad. I got the light and dark element of my old photo program really messed up. Now it’s gone, as is the old computer (only four years ago!) Most of the faces are not scowling. There’s my favorite in the upper left corner, looking like a dreamer. There is one though, where the stitching isn’t so good, and she does look a little “off”.
Thanks for your input. I’ve had a few nice conversations from the seller of the embroidery cd’s. She has only copyrighted her images to her cd. What ever that means.
As far as the depiction of servitude of black servants…. I’ve always looked at it with similar eye to the “First I slept and dreamed life was Beauty, then I woke and found Life was duty”. Since it was found in Grand Rapids, Phyllis thought it might have been created for the large black population around the factories in those days. (That wasn’t written in the appraisal.) I don’t see it as a social commentary, but rather a depiction of a woman’s life. Well, maybe the one with the woman eating a watermelon…. hmmm.
Still, I’ve always loved the piece and have been happy to offer it’s beauty to needle workers who see it in the same light. One of my big loves is doing the bedturnings at our yearly quilt show. I love to feel the connection to earlier women. I love to hear the stories. Sometimes, when repairing an old quilt, I think about my needle going right into the same needle hole as the woman who created it during the depression.
I’m not as good as expressing myself in words as you are….. but it’s a heart thing. Soul? I just feel a connection. Maybe part of it is because I’ve lost all my female elders in my family. My grandmother who was a quilter died when I was 10. No one has any of her quilts!
Well, before I need a hankie, I’d better sign off.
Thanks so much for the commentary! You are a blessing to us Pat. Have a terrific day too! Chris
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:57:12 +0000 | From: jocelynm@
By arbitrarily assigning this value to a homey type design, we are giving an awful lot of power to this unknown someone. Kris, The question is, I believe, is this being arbitrarily assigned? Or is it that one person has previously lived a life where awareness of racism andoppression were limited, until she had racist/oppressive meanings behind objects pointed out to her? Maybe lots of white people have enjoyed ‘mammy’ art, without thinking a b it about it. But if they were to look at the issue, they might see the ra cism within in. As Frederick Douglass said, ‘The great evil of slavery is that slaves areexpected to sing as well as to work.’ Or, in the ‘mammy’s ‘ case, grin.
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:13:51 -0600 | From: Mary Waller <mswaller@>
Wikipedia.org is a resource used by a lot of students. Anyone can contribute aricles on any topic. There is no article titled Underground Railroad Quilts, but there is a small amount of info on quilts (they’re doubtful) under the Underground Railroad page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Railroad#Folklore
Maybe someone here would like to contribute proactively!
Mary Waller Vermillion, South Dakota, USA
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:21:19 -0800 | From: “Alan”
Yeah, it’s funny how we give power through words. Me, personally, I find the N word offensive. But I have clear of my grandmother referring to her black doll as her “[N Word] baby”, without a trace of enmity. I was horrified by it then, of course. I guess it was a purely generational thing, since by the time I was old enough, you didn;t say such things. And I did love gramma dearly. But she said some pretty funky things.
Alan
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:29:18 -0800 | From: “Alan”
Well, you have to forgive me for thinking the professor behaved badly in smashing the shaker. Anger or no, you can not give more power than the object deserves, and can not assign meaning to it that was never intended. At some point you have to let your anger go. Most of the black memorabilia was made with rather benign intent, setting forth popolar culture. I’m not saying it was good, but people need to approach these thing understanding how they came about, not placing our personal modern feelings upon them. I mean, I do understand being discriminated against, I’ve experienced it myself. I’ve lost job opportunities, been harrassed on the street, etc. It’s hard not to be angry and lash out. But I think that a body has to behave in a manner that’s more productive. Destroying an object isn’t going to change what was or is. Frankly, I’d love to never feel the need to watch over my shoulder for being different.
Alan
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:15:06 -0800 (PST) | From: Kris Driessen <krisdriessen@>
I have to agree with Alan. We are never going to advance as a society until we start evaluating people for who they are, not how they are packaged. I have often felt my parents did me an injustice my not teaching me prejudice. I never paid any attention to obvious clues that people were different – so what? Are all the flowers in the world the same color, found in the same country, have the same climate requirements?
Those of you in the working world know that this is not a good attitude to have. My resolute belief that all people are basically the same (good and would do the right thing if given a chance) earned me the label of niave, which is the kiss of death in management.
I say that all in the past tense because now I work for a much nicer boss – myself – in a world where you don’t judge people by their package but by the quilts they make:-))
I think we need to be careful assigning values to symbols. Granted, whoever assigned a meaning to each letter of the alphabet gave us language, without which I wouldn’t be writing this note. But the meaning of symbols, like language itself, changes over time. A prime example is the good luck symbol which became distorted during WWII.
As far as the Mammy design goes, it is my (admittedly niave) belief that it was not created to denigrate black women. It seems to me that it was part of the embroidery motif bubble that started with redwork and crazy quilts in the late 1800’s and seems to have burst in the 1950’s. When I look at the motifs, I see grandma bustling around doing her chores. Remember Monday: Wash Day; Tuesday: Ironing Day; Wednesday: Sewing Day; Thursday: Market Day; Friday: Cleaning Day; Saturday: Baking Day; Sunday: Day of Rest. I do not honestly believe someone went to the time and effort to do all that embroidery just to show racism. There are easier ways to do that.
Having said all that, Mammy does make me a little uncomfortable. I don’t like stereotypes. But I can respect the design and the maker for what it was at the time. One thing I do make clear in my lectures and we need to keep in mind during our discussions: we can’t judge 19th century people by our 21st century values. A lot has changed in the last 150 years. Imagine having this discussion in 2156!
Kris
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:22:17 -0800 | From: “Rachel Greco” <grandmasattic@>
Black memorabilia is a hot item for collectors, including African Americans. In speaking with individuals who have large collections of this material-everything from the salt and pepper shakers, to linens and quilt patterns, to food and grooming products–I learned that some of the largest collectors are African Americans who collect it specifically because it speaks to a cultural stereotype that is a part of America’s past. It is my understanding in speaking with these collectors that many “Mammy” items were created after the release of “Gone with the Wind” and modeled after the character of Hattie McDaniel. Hattie, who played the maid in this movie, received an Academy Award for her role. She also played the maid in many other movies. Some members of the black community, including the NAACP, were very distressed by her “sell-out” in portraying a role of subservience in movies. Her reply was, “Why should I complain about making $7,000 a week playing a maid? If I didn’t, I’d be making $7 a week being one.”
Rachel Greco
Grandmas Attic &
GrandmasAtticQuilting.com
Dallas, Oregon
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:17:13 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings <pat@>
Dear Rachel:
Thanks for that connection, time-wise. That makes a lot of sense and ties in to what Phyllis Twigg reportedly said about a kit connection (1945). “Gone With the Wind”, the movie, was released two weeks after the start of WWII, so by 1945, the idea of Mammies, as isolated cultural icons, would have been in place.
To me, this information sets up a red flag that the Mammy embroidery patterns are NOT out of copyright, and should not be freely copied for distribution.
The whole issue of Mammy design images is a matter of perception involving who is doing the assessment. In some cases, “she” can be perceived at the epitomy of persecution and exploitation. This is not a surprise, given that housekeepers (read “slaves”) often were sexually exploited by their “master.”
It is interesting to hear that African-American people collect certain material objects that reflect former times, like the Mammy/(Pappy)? Salt & Pepper Shakers. I thought that they were rather cute and bought a pair for that reason. Based on the few items that I own (in that category), I suppose that one could jump to some wrong conclusions.
The original question that started this discussion is whether or not the Mammy embroidery designs are copyright free. I conclude that they are not, and therefore, anyone selling them is committing an illegal act.
Pat Cummings
Rachel Greco <grandmasattic@> wrote:
> Her reply was, “Why should I complain about > making $7,000 a week > playing a maid? If I didn’t, I’d be making $7 a week > being one.”
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:01:23 -0800 | From: “Carroll” <rl.carroll@>
RE: copyright and public domain.
Cornell has a site with information on copyright (see URL below) and an easy to understand chart.
Basically this is what it says, but go to the site to read the specifics if you are interested in this subject, there are many pages there.
IN the public domain are the following…
– Anything published before 1923.
– Anything published 1923-1977 that does not contain a copyright notice.
-Anything published 1978 to 1 March 1989 without copyright notice, and without subsequent registration.
– Anything published 1923-63 with copyright notice whose copyright you can determine was not renewed.
Also if you scroll down the page you will see a note with the information that fewer than 15% of copyrights are renewed, less than 7% for books, which I found interesting.
http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm
Hope this helps, Laurette
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:01:25 -0800 (PST) | From: Laura Fisher <laurafisherquilts@>
Great news—the missing Abide with Me quilt has turned up, boxed and shipped with someone else’s stuff. Heart oif Country people backtracked through the exhibition dismantling process, contacted all to whom things had been shipped, discovered it in storage already elsewhere!! Thanks for all your help.
Great to know about the Lost Quilt service. And yes, that IS the quilt on the Allilance website Save our Stories, John goes into great detail about it, with good pictures. Thank goodness it turned up.
Now, if only I could locate all the things that have disappeared from my shop..Most distressing recently is a glorious embroidered wool tablecover from Maine, with fruit, including cut melons all around the four sides, on a rich camel colored felted wool background (these cloths are usually vivid flowers on black) My missing one is rectangular, in excellent condition.
Re Henry VIII, did each wife have a quilt?!
F>Y>I>, on a PBS station I happened upon an thoughtful show interviewing contemporary quiltmaker/artists,. They have a website: www.woman’s work.com, and sell the documentary I think. Worth watching and informative, especially for those of us who handle only antique stuff.
They referred to every quilter nowadays having a “fleece wall” on which to display their emerging designs, to step back from and view the composition as it develops. Was there a corresponding method 100 years ago to achieve a larger scale graphic from combining individual blocks?
Laura Fisher
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:28:36 -0800
Oh, Henry had *more* than enough quilts for all his wives…at the time of his death he owned 67 quilts, almost evenly divided between silk and linen, or around 11 quilts per wife..:)
Karen Evans
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:34:24 -0800 | From: <suereich@>
This was just sent to me by a fried. sue reich The Textile Museum Announces Publication of The Textile Museum Thesaurus http://www.textilemuseumshop.org/index.cgi?f=ss&t=7&s=38&snum=21&dnum=10 March 23, 2006, Washington, DC – The Textile Museum is pleased to announce the publication of The Textile Museum Thesaurus, a scholarly compilation of the Museum’s textile cataloging terminology. The Thesaurus was produced as part of the Lloyd Cotsen Textile Documentation Pr oject, established at The Textile Museum in 1998 to develop the collection s database through documentation, cataloging and photography of the collect ions as well as standardization of the cataloging terminology. The Thesauru s is used as an electronic data management tool for controlling data entry and facilitating searches in the Museum’s extensive collections database. A s the first textile-specific vocabulary resource for electronic databases, the Thesaurus is a valuable reference for any institution or private collec tor involved in cataloging textiles. The Textile Museum Thesaurus was developed because no existing cataloging v ocabulary met the Museum’s need to describe handmade textiles worldwide usi ng the detailed terminology necessary for textile specialists. As a vocabul ary resource, The Textile Museum Thesaurus serves as both a reference and a useful model for curators, scholars, collections managers, conservators an d catalogers working with textile collections elsewhere. This publication p resents The Textile Museum’s preferred textile terms and organization witho ut definitions, illustrations or bibliographic references. The Textile Muse um staff anticipates that colleagues at other institutions will adapt, expa nd and draw from the Thesaurus according to their own needs. Features of the Thesaurus include: – Terms used by The Textile Museum in cataloging its collections of primarily handmade textiles from Asia, Africa, the Middle East and the indigenous cultures of the Americas from 3000 B.C.E. to the present.
– 2,263 preferred terms for the names of textile objects, their constituent materials, their physical structures and the techniques used to create them.
– 685 alternate spellings, synonyms, obsolete and non-preferred terms linke d to preferred terms for vocabulary control during data entry and to provide a broad access vocabulary to searchers.
– Preferred terms organized hierarchically to facilitate searching by mapping generic terms to more specific instances. The Textile Museum Thesaurus was compiled by the Lloyd Cotsen Textile Docu mentation Project and curatorial staff at The Textile Museum, edited by Cecilia Gunzburger and funded by the Cotsen Family Foundation. The Thesaurus is available for $5 from The Textile Museum Shop and Shop Online. To order, visit www.textilemuseumshop.org or call (202) 667-0441, ext. 29.
Esther Méthé Margaret Wing Dodge Chair in Conservation Chief Conservator The Textile Museum 2320 S Street N.W. >Washington, DC 20008 phone: 202.667.0441 ex 18 / fax: 202.483.0994 e-mail: emethe@
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:37:19 +0000 | From: jocelynm@
I do not honestly >believe someone went to the time and effort to do all that embroidery >just to show racism. There are easier ways to do that.
I’ll be glad to accept that individuals employed these motifs because the y found them charming, and not to express racism. But culturally, one ‘easy’ way to put down a group is to trivialize them,= to turn them into objects for another group’s amusement or entertainment . One might say that back in the 1970s, men didn’t mean to show sexism by c alling their secretaries ‘honey’, or asking them to fetch coffee, lunch o r their suit from the dry-cleaner’s. But overall, society didn’t conclude, ‘If you’re employing a woman, it’s OK to address her however you like, or expect her to act as your ‘office wife’.’ That an individual man didn’= t mean anything derogatory by calling his female employees ‘honey’, didn’= t mean that it wasn’t an act that contributed to society’s overall attitu de that males were superior to females. We were able to accept that women and men might have different perspectives on this- and that the male per spective was not automatically right. Likewise, can we accept that when the issue is the depiction of a particu lar ethnic group, that members of that group and members of a different g roup may not see the image in the same light- and that the group not depi cted is not automatically correct nor is the group depicted automatically overly sensitive in their objections?
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:45:39 +0000 | From: jocelynm@
>Oh, Henry had *more* than enough quilts for all his wives…at the time of his death he owned 67 quilts, almost evenly divided between silk and linen, or around 11 quilts per wife..:)
Karen, Since ‘quilt’ was also used as a term for ‘quilted clothing’, are all of these bedcovers, or are some of them Henry-covers? <g>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:51:28 +0000 | From: jocelynm@
colors with a big Quilting stitch done in 6 strand of embroidery floss, most of the time done in black, something I have seen in African-American Quilters. Do you know if this kind of thread it is still use among Afric an American Quilters?. Pilar, Don’t know about AA quilters, but I know of a few white quilters who favo r this technique. Perle cotton is sometimes used instead of embroidery floss; at least part ially because in the town where these quilters lived, there was a weaving store that sold perle cotton in bulk at a very modest price. 🙂
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:07:58 -0600 | From: “Karen Musgrave” <KarenMusgrave@>
The Alliance for American Quilts (www.centerforthequilt.org ) eBay auction this week has Kansas City Star original clippings from 1928-1939, many OOP books including “Always There: The African-American Presence in American Quilts,” and a great c1920 wool 9 patch quilt in browns and rusts, a sweet little Irish chain for only $19.99, a great listing of over 40 pieces vintage fabric at only $9.99 and much more! You can check it out by going to http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZalliancequilts or search by our seller’s name- alliancequilts.Your purchases also benefit a great organization which is doing incredible things for quilts. New auctions are posted every Sunday. Happy bidding and thanks for the support.
All the best, Karen Musgrave Join us! Become a member and get advance news on our auctions AND help preserve our great quilt heritage. www.centerforthequilt.org
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:16:32 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram <gingram@>
> > I’ll accept that individuals employed these motifs because they found th em charming. But culturally, one ‘easy’ way to put down a group is to triviali ze them, to turn them into objects for another group’s amusement or entertainm ent.
I agree. The “Mammy” icon was ubiquitous in the South and, I suppose, elsewhere (e.g., Hattie McDaniels on “Beulah” radio show–in 50’s, I think)= . No one intended to insult black women, just as no one intended to insult black people in general by having separate waiting rooms in doctor’s offices, separate water fountains, Jim Crow galleries in movie theatres, and, many times, no rest rooms at all in public places. I know that most decent people did not mean to offend with these practices. And what always struck me as terrible was that many–maybe even most—black people in our section seemed not to be seriously insulted by them. Even after laws were i n place that made separation by race illegal in movie theaters, I recall the late-Saturday night movie theater here remaining segregated by choice. Students from Grambling State University went upstairs; students from LA Tech went downstairs.
This was a case when intentions reflected ignorance and insensitivity to others. It’s like Irish and Polish jokes: if a member of the group tells them, that’s one thing. If somebody else tells them, that’s another. It really is quite different. Like “laughing with” and “laughing at.”
I remember feeling so guilty seeing kids filing into Jim Crow sections when the last feature opened. I kept thinking, “Why don’t they just leave, just refuse to pay if they are treated in such a demeaning way?” I still wonder that.
I confess that this white guilt cost me one of my best creations from childhood. When I was in the fifth grade, our teacher must have been into ceramic painting, for she let the class bring ceramic figures to class and paint them during art period. I got figures of George and Martha Washington because I was interested in historic costumes, and I also got a figure of a little Negro boy holding a quarter of a watermelon. His “frizzy” hair appealed mightily to me for the possibilities it presented the painter (me)= . On the base was incised “‘Way Down South.” George and Martha looked pretty good, actually, but the other figure was my gem. I had taken special pains to get the right colors for jeans and such and to dot watermelon seeds in. I gave the figures to my mother for Mother’s Day and as mothers must, she found someplace prominent to display them. For a while. George and Martha were simply too tall to be missed, and so they soon found their way to a closet, I think, thence to some rummage sale. But my wonderful little boy was small and could be placed in nooks and crannies, so he survived. When I myself had a fifth-grader, my mother insisted I take it to my home. By then I’d grown up and was ashamed I’d indulged in such a demeaning cliché, even though I had not known it was a cliché and had not thought of it as insulting: we all ate watermelon here. Yet I couldn’t throw it away, for it was so–well, so lovely<g>. So I stuck it in the recesses of a cabinet. One day years later my cleaning lady, who is a black woman, came upon it. I die d a thousand deaths, didn’t know what to say, started to explain, when she asked me if I wanted it. Absolutely not, I told her. She did want it, she said. Several weeks later I asked her what she had done with my work of art . She had sold it for a princely sum is what. When I mentioned the experience to a local antiques dealer, she told me the principal collectors of such things were Africn-Americans of some taste—and not as examples of denigration either. So who knows how others regard such items?
In my experience, the Mammy of them all exists between Natchez, MS and Woodville, MS. It is a giant sized Mammy made with stucco, I guess, and painted in bright colors. And I do mean giant. Inside the aproned-skirt is a small café with 4-5 tables and a counter. Actually, the last time I stopped to photograph it, it had been turned into a “tea room” after lunch. If the embroidered images offend, then this one will incite a riot. Oddest thing i n the world.
But then as Julia Sugarbaker famously stated, “In the South we cherish our crazy people.” It’s because they give us such good stories. I, for instance , am the envy of many of my friends because I had an uncle by marriage (my mother always stressed BY MARRIAGE and then pretended he did not exist, eve n though he was not on her side of the family)— a small man who barely uttered a word, as opposed to his wife, my story-full aunt. And he never seemed to have been employed. Among the things he once had done was get drunk and fall into an outdoor toilet during a country dance. The most wonderful story, I assure you. I cherish the stories he gave me. Many believed him to be unable to speak and few had heard him say more than heh-heh-heh. Thus, when as a teenager, I was sent to deliver garden vegetables to my aunt and as I passed him on the porch, heard him say, “Come in. Heh heh heh. You’ve grown. Got nice legs,” I was sure I was havin g visions and hearing voices. Then I remembered what a good story it would be in the family. How people would say in hushed voices when women gathered in kitchens, “Gail, tell Sarah the story of….” And then the little rascal’s impudence mattered not a whit.
Maybe that’s what African-Americans think of the black mammy figures.
I leave you with this fact, unrelated to anything much. This week a freshma n boy turned in to me an essay entitled, “Laughter: Is It Good For You?” Turn s out, it is indeed. How many of you knew of the study done in 1996 (Tan and somebody) that reached this finding: the average American child laughs 400 times each day; the average American adult laughs 15 times?
Like Sister in “Why I Live At the P.O.” said, “There’s no end of things you can learn if you just know where to look.” And Southerners generally don’t have to look too long or hard.
Gail
