September 22 – 23, 2004
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- The Machine-Quilting-Old-Tops Debate Heats Up — The debate over finishing antique tops by machine versus by hand becomes the digest’s dominant thread, with strong opinions on both sides.
- Labeling Quilts with a Home Printer — Members compare methods for printing quilt labels directly onto fabric versus embroidering or hand-lettering them.
- Natural Dye Mordants and Fabric Safety — A detailed exchange covers alum, madder, and chrome mordants used in natural dyeing, including which are toxic to work with. (see the article on natural dyes)
- Elias Howe and the History of the Sewing Machine — A member shares an 1860 magazine article crediting Elias Howe as the sewing machine’s inventor.
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:36:46 -0400 | From: Bob Shaw <shaw.bob@>
I wanted to let everyone know that Karen Musgrave is now in the Republic of Georgia and sending daily reports on her travels, teaching, and research there on the new Alliance for American Quilts webblog.
Here is the beginning of her latest entry: “Teaching today was filled with many challenges. We only had three sewing machines. One was a one woman powered; crank sewing machine. The other two were powered but very old (one made to the Republic of China and the other in Poland but the writing is all in English) and each took turns needing special care.”
You can access the blog and make comments at http://centerforthequilt.org/webblog/index.php or via the blog button on the bottom left side of The Center for the Quilt Online home page, www.centerforthequilt.org.
Karen will be in Georgia until October 8, so there is much more to come. It sounds like a pretty amazing experience!
Bob
Robert Shaw Executive Director The Alliance for American Quilts P.O. Box 6251 Louisville, KY 40206 502/897-3819 quiltalliance@
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:44:23 -0400 | From: Judy Knorr <jknorr@>
We had a quilt appraiser as a speaker at our guild meeting last night and her talk gave me lots of information to think about. One of the things she discussed was documenting family quilts. I have a number of quilts from various family members, but none of my family actually labelled their quilts (some are dated)! I am making a notebook with pictures and written information about each quilt, but my concern is that the information and the quilt may become separated. What do you suggest as an appropriate way to identify the maker so it stays with the quilt? Thanks, Judy Knorr
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:29:24 -0500 | From: “Marcia Kaylakie” <marciark@>
Hi Judy, One sure way would be to photo transfer a picture of the quiltmaker onto muslin along with the information and attach it carefully to the back of the quilt.
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:36:25 -0700 | From: “Laura Fisher” <laurafishernetlink1.net>
I must have missed the posting on this–is someone creating a (or is it an?!) hooked rug registry?
What a challenge–so few are documented as to maker, unlike quilts. Also, so many rugs migrated down from the Maritime provinces in Canada yet have been labelled “American”, especially if bought in Maine, that it would be murky to try decipher regional characteristics. And, many rugs were based on pre-stamped patterns, geometrics as well as pictorials….
what a challenge.
The earliest ones—yarn sewn, shirred, etc. would be fascinating and historic to document.
Keep us posted.
Laura Fisher
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:50:35 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Judy K. said; One thing I am absolutely resolute about is that whether an old top (meaning prior to 1950) is quilted by machine or hand, the batting and thread need to be 100% COTTON. I have seen too many antique tops ruined when someone hand-quilted them using polyester batting or thread – the batting often acts like thousands of tiny brillo pads cutting through the fabric from the inside out, and polyester thread (or even heavier “quilting” cotton thread) is stronger than the old fabrics, and cuts through them. * * * * * * *
I could not agree more with Judy. I never use stiff, heavy thread for hand quilting. My preference is Mettler Quilting thread 100% cotton merc. Due to the fact that it is mercerized, (an additional process in the production of thread or cotton fabric), it has a nice sheen to it. The thinness of the thread makes it easy to “sink” knots. I find that if I use 18″ lengths, the thread does not catch into secondary knots, and the mercerization (sheen) stays “put” on the thread.
In my travels, I have not seen a terrific number of antique quilts that were machine quilted, although some, surprisingly were. I have never, ever seen machine quilted feathers on an old quilt. I wonder if this is a Pennsylvania phenomenon?
One of the dangers in “finishing” an old quilt top is that it will be “used”. I know this sounds like a dumb thing to say. However, a textile that is used as a new one would be (by the unknowing), i.e. thrown in the washer, taken camping, or any other scenario that would give you or I a panic attack, will be ready for the compost heap in no time flat.
I must admit that I would NEVER consider sleeping under an antique quilt. Why not? I’d rather not take chances with micro-organisms that can lurk on the surface, some of which are thought to be potentially carcinogenic or otherwise disease-causing. Remember the report of live smallpox spores on this list just recently? Naw, I’d rather sleep under a quilt of my own creation.
Nonetheless, I do collect old quilts and textiles and store them carefully in museum quality boxes, etc. etc. and handle them with gloved hands (which I figure is more for my health, actually).
Just a few more thoughts…………
Pat
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:23:53 -0600 | From: Inglewood Quilt Design <InglewoodQuilts@>
My mom has been doing this with our family quilts, and ones she buys as auctions. She has made really small labels, embroidered the name of the quilter or the family name, the location, and the date when it was made. She puts a ~ when it is uncertain of the date. She also has a number that corresponds to her quilt ledger where she will add any other information.
Not sure if this is appropriate but it is what she has done. It would be interesting to find out what is appropriate so I can pass it on to her.
Carol-lynn in Calgary
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:58:22 -0600 | From: Inglewood Quilt Design <InglewoodQuilts@>
Hello, have been lurking for about 2 weeks now, learned so much, thank-you and finally there is a topic that I can contribute to.
Like most of you here, I love quilts, they teach me about my personal family history, (have a quilt my great-great grandmother made), and about women’s history. Currently I teach a beginner’s class along with the basics I teach a little bit about the history and mythology about quilting. Everything I teach and try to do is about preserving and appreciating the tradition while contributing to the growth in new directions.
Started out as a hand quilter, never thought that I would do anything but then I bought a long-arm. Now my perspective is a little different. Why would someone machine quilt? It is a different look for sure but it can contribute to the beauty of a quilt. A lot of people love to piece the tops but the thought of quilting is not interesting to them, so they send them out to be quilted. Hopefully who they have chosen can enhance their top and keep within the tradition of the piecing of the quilt.
My mother buys me quilt tops in auctions for me to quilt. Right now I have a 1930s quilt that I will machine quilt but it won’t be a pantograph! Instead I am looking at finished quilts that are similar from that time and will mimic that look, it will just be quilted on the machine instead of hand done. Although this top is beautiful, it is not fancy or monitarily worth much so for me to quilt it in keeping with the time so it can occasionally be used to me, is preserving the reason the original quiltmaker intended. Now I don’t machine quilt the very old or damaged quilt tops. If I recieve a top where the fabric has sun damage or is very thin I will hand quilt them. My intent is not to ruin the top but finish it.
Personally when I receive a quilt made from, for example, civil war reproduction fabric and the pattern is from that era, I will recommend quilting in keeping with the era to my client, but in the end it is their choice, if they want a panto, my hand are tied. Must admit, when this happens the quilt takes me twice as long as it should to finish…..
There are valid reasons people don’t hand quilt, there are valid reasons for some old quilts to be machine quilted. Hopefully whatever method is used enhances the tradition, style, look of the quilt.
JMHO, sorry if I have offended anyone, it is just my opinion as both a hand quilter and a longarmer.
Thanks for teaching me so much, Carol-lynn in Calgary
From: “ElizaBeth L. Haubold” <eliza1057@>
That’s the nice part, we all have our reasons why we like a certain method.
Barb Garrett <bgarrett421@> wrote:Elizabeth wrote —
Why go to all the time and effort to make a quilt, if you’re not going to quilt it by hand.
My answer —
Because machine quilting can be just as beautiful as hand quilting, and can take more skill, talent and practice than hand quilting. I know there will be people who think I’m wrong, but I think a well done machine quilted quilt from the late 1800s is beautiful. To me, there is nothing sacred about hand quilting. Yes, well done hand quilting is beautiful and can enhance the beauty of the quilt, and I admire a well done hand quilted quilt. But just as piecing made the natural progression from hand to machine after the machine was available, so too does method of quilting. Well done machine quilting is beautiful and can enhance the beauty of the quilt.
I have seen quilts with poorly done hand quilting, and with poorly done machine quilting. But I have also seen, both vintage and contempory, absolutely knock your socks off beautiful quilts quilted by machine.
Just my thoughts, Barb in sunny southeastern PA
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Pat — Mettler also has a silk finish which means thread has been run through a very hot calendering process to flatten fiber so that more of fiber is exposed to light which gives it that additional luster and smoothness. I haven’t seen silk finish on thread since the early 1970s; Coats & Clarks was famous for its silk finish on all its threads; couldn’t distinguish from the real McCoy.
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 16:22:18 -0700 | From: “Marilyn Maddalena Withrow” <marilynquilts@>
“These are just a few thoughts, and probably unwelcome, unsolicited advice. Not trying to start WWIII here or a huge discussion as to the value of machine quilting or not. I’m just saying that it is important to think about your decision very carefully because sometimes the result will be irreversible.
From one who cares about the treasures of time, Pat Cummings”
Thank you, Pat, for your thoughts. I’m so glad to hear them! My first inclination, when reading the question about quilting the antique quilt top, was to gasp and say, “No, No, No. Think about what you’re doing before you do it!” I’m asked the same question frequently also, and I personally would never machine quilt an older quilt top. I’ve been doing quite a bit of quilt repair/restoration/renovation lately in connection with my appraising, and there was only one time I felt the fabric was strong enough to handle machine quilting — and that was a 1950’s quilt. Anything older than that should either be hand-quilted or left alone to rest in peace and beauty. I agree that machine quilting can be wonderful, some of the professional long-arm quilters out there do outstanding work — that said, I also think it should be reserved for new quilts. After all, we as historians want to keep quilts true to their time — many new quilts ARE long-arm machine quilted, and so that is appropriate to our time period, but not to a time period in the past.
Marilyn Maddalena Withrow Professional Quilt Appraiser, Judge, Textile Historian, Designer and Speaker www.marilynquilts.com
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:17:31 EDT | From: Crm793@
Hi Laura,
Can you quickly explain ‘shirred’ rugs, I may have one.
Carolyn
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:29:12 -0400 | From: “Lucinda Cawley” <lrcawley@>
Hi Candace, I’d be happy to participate with a discussion of the fraktur inscribed quilts if you think that would fit. Cinda
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:31:39 -0500 | From: “Laura Syler” <texas_quilt.co@>
Judy, You can type the information into your computer and print it off on fabric and stitch this information to the back of your quilts. There is a product out on the market, Printed Treasurers, I believe is the name. Paper backed fabric that will easily go through your printer. After stitching, be careful to remove this label if ever the quilt is to be wet cleaned. Most computer printer inks are not waterproof. I believe Cannon is the only one that has really tried to work with the textile industry and make their ink as permanent as possible. Before this product, I would iron fabric to freezer paper cut into letter size and run that through the printer. Make sure that you clean off the ink cartridge(s) afterwards, before you print to paper. There can oftentimes be little stray “hairs”…which can cause one heck of a mess!!! As an appraiser, this documentation label is a wonderful source for provenance. But more importantly, this information that once may have been on a yellowed piece of paper, pinned with a rusty straight pin to the quilt, has no chance of getting put in the drawer across the room and getting thrown out!
Laura Hobby Syler Certified Appraiser of Quilted Textiles Quilt Restoration Specialist Teacher, Lecturer, Writer Richardson, Texas
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:22:27 -0700 | From: “Christine Thresh” <christine@>
There is some paper backed fabric which can be printed on by any ink jet printer and is washable. The product is called Miracle Fabric Sheets. It is made by the C. Jenkins Company — http://www.cjenkinscompany.com . These sheets can be used for a quilt label. They are much less expensive than other fabric sheets on the market. The Jenkins Company is the one that developed Bubble Jet Set 2000, a liquid that can be used to treat your own fabric for printing.
I have no affiliation with the company. I am a satisfied customer. I made a photo and text label for my brother-in-law’s Family Tree quilt this summer. I also made a separate smaller label with quilt care instructions.
Christine Thresh http://www.@
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:36:13 -0700 | From: “Chris and Carol Gebel” <gebeljps.net>
I am hand-quilting a top (ca. 1940) made by my husband’s grandmother who because of poor eyesight always sent out her quilts to be quilted – I’m sure by hand. A lot of fun to see the quilt top take on “new life” and my husband is very pleased that I am finishing the top made by his favorite grandmother. (Rumor, from his mother, is that he was the favorite grandchild. He was her first grandchild.) Not to say that I believe in always hand quilting vintage tops. I can think of cases when it would be appropriate, depending a lot on the condition of the top as well as it being made since about 1950 onward. The first antique quilt we got was, oddly, hand pieced and machine quilted!
Marilyn – if this reaches you, please let me know. I tried to sign up for the qhl but am not sure I got completely signed up!
Looking forward to AQSG – will tell you all about it when we get back.
Carol Gebel
From: “ElizaBeth L. Haubold” <eliza1057@>
I’m sorry if I sounded patronizing when I said that I prefered hand quilting. It takes me a long time to hand quilt one, but for me, with a high stress job it is my relaxation salvation. I prefer for myself to do it that way. I can understand why machine quilting works for some. I sure didn’t mean to offend anyone. I have a quilt that dates back to the early 1900’s and when it needs repairs I hand quilt it. I take the quilt out once a year and use for one afternoon. But the thought of all quilts become machine quilting is a sad thought for me, because that is such a part of history that I would hate for generations to come to not be able to see it. Forgive me if I offended some, I sure didn’t mean to.
From: Donald Beld
Okay, I really have to throw my two cents (in today’s economy that would need to be twenty dollars) in on this discussion. I agree with Pat Cummings–anything pre 1900 not only probably should not be machine quilted (too hard on the fabric), but a pre-1900 top probably shouldn’t be quilted at all. The reason being that the acids in modern cotton thread do not sit well with pre a900 fabrics–over time they will eat away at the antique fabrics.
HOWEVER, as a HAND PIECER AND HAND QUILTER–I really could be described as a vanishing breed–I will say that knowledgeable people prefer hand work as they know how much time goes into it. Outstanding machine quilting can also be work its weight in gold–there are true artists out there in machine quilting.
What I have been doing lately on quilts that don’t mean quite as much to me–mistakes or don’t like the way they came out–I am having a machine quilter do in the ditch quilting or border quilting and doing the rest by hand. This allows me to finish more quilts especially quilts that have been sittin around. I designed a large pieced Nativity quilt over a year and a half ago that my guild did as a swap a block and I started hand quilting it in January last year–BUT never finished. Now the bordes have been machine quilted with a feature pattern and I am finishing the 1/4 of the center than I never got done.
So–everyone has to decide for themselves. Just be careful of fragile fabrics on old quilts.
Don Beld-
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:36:31 -0400 | From: “J. G. Row” <JudyGrow@>
When I make my quilt labels I also use my printer, but I don’t print on fabric.
I choose a font without serifs and print in a size that approximates the size of my everyday handwriting, and I print onto regular paper.
I iron muslin to freezer paper, pin the printed text under it and put it on my lightbox. I use a Pigma pen and trace the printed information onto the muslin. When ironed to set the ink, it will not run or bleed when wet cleaned.
It is amazing how much information I can get on my labels when I do them this way.
And speaking of labels, I’ve just gotten a few Quilt Care Labels that are just perfect to sew to quilts you will be giving as gifts. The best way to describe them is to copy their own copy. “Ribbon-like, 3-inch square, taffeta labels explain to your friends and family how to clean, display and store the quilt you made.”
They are easy to applique onto the back of your quilt and carry all the information you would like others to know about how to take care of the quilt you made.
The name of the company is Gorges Quilt Labelsand they are in Cheyenne, WY www.gorgesquiltlabels.com. I don’t think they are related to our own Lynn Gorges.
The company was nice enough to send me some labels to give as door prizes at my guild show and I think they are great. I will be ordering some myself.
No affiliation, yadda, yadda.
Judy, aka the Ringoes Kid judygrow@
From: “J. G. Row”
Please inform me about acid in cotton thread. As a picture framer I know that the most acid free materials we can get for matting are made of cotton. I’d never heard that cotton thread became more acidic than cotton yardage. Cotton is almost pure cellulose, both the thread we sew with and the fabric we sew on. Even vintage cotton yardage is the same stuff. Why would cotton thread be more acidic and damaging on cotton fabric? Do you have an information source?
The Crescent Cardboard Company, one of the two largest matboard companies in the U.S.A states on its web site: “…Matboard made of cotton fibers, which are naturally acid-free and lignin-free. Cotton is time-tested and naturally free of any chemicals or pollutants that would degrade matboard or artwork. Cotton is also an annually renewable resource, making it more environmentally friendly. Cotton rag matboard is the natural choice when the highest levels of matting are required for the display, protection and preservation of artwork.”
Judy, aka the Ringoes Kid judygrow@
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:54:38 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Dear Elizabeth:
Don’t worry about offending anyone on the quilt history list. You said nothing offensive. You should not ever need to feel that you have to apologize for your opinions or preferences. Those abound on the list.
Just so long as someone is not openly calling names or personally attacking or degrading someone else, it is OKAY to speak your mind.
The divergence of opinion is what makes for a more stimulating interchange. If we all agreed with each other all the time, there would be nothing to discuss. It is always so interesting to hear what everyone thinks and what antique quilts means to each of us. I always learn so much from every post, whether or not I agree with the information. There is always food for thought, and I don’t think that any of us are “sharing” in a mean or competitive way.
So, thanks for your posts. I hope you will continue to send thoughts to the list as you are clearly devoted to preserving at least some of these old quilts, and the tradition of (hand) quilting, my favorite, too. There is a lot to be said for the folk art symbol of Heart and Hand. The hand is connected to the heart. The hand is connected to the quilt, in a temporal way, when the quilt is in progress. And so we leave our own legacy, one stitch at a time.
God Bless. 🙂
Pat
I’ve come across many quilt tops that are of poor quality fabric or are poorly constructed overall and still others where hand quilting would be lost because it would not show up. I think every top needs to be evaluated for whether it should be quilted at all, and if it is a piece that could be improved by quilting, we need to determine what type of quilting we will do. Hand quilting IS beautiful on a quilt that warrants it, but not all quilts warrant hand quilting. Hand or machine quilting with appropriate batting, backing and thread strengthens the piece and will save it from use none of us would want to see
The same thing holds true for quilting. Having had Valley Fever, which comes from spores in the soil (in my archaeology days), I am very concerned if a quilt has a musty odor or if I begin to choke while handling it. Doing appraisals, I have come across some very nasty quilts. I did quilt repair and restoration for years, and I have never had one single quilt hurt by appropriate cleaning methods. Again, quilts have to be evaluated for the type of cleaning that is done. There is a possibility to encounter spores, mildew, DDT, heavy cigar or cigarette smoke, smoke from fires, etc. on an old quilt, particularly if it has been stored in a garage, basement, attic or other suspect location. I seriously doubt that any reputable quilt dealer would intentionally sell dirty quilts.
As with anything, we need to take time to make a good decision as to what we will do with a quilt tops, and I don’t think there is really any single right or wrong answer. Peace and blessings, Annie
I’m not certain when the first longarm quilting was done, but my good friend Ike Winner’s mom used a longarm quilting machine in the 1930s. It was a stationary machine with a swing frame. She kept good records of her quilting and charged by the spool of thread used. She was limited to overall quilting patterns that were used at that time. Ike’s father made the frame for her, using pulleys hung from the ceiling that he got from a junkyard.
Barbara Brackman (and I can’t remember the other lady’s name right now) put on a great quilt exhibit in Southern California at one of our local museums, and it featured machine quilted quilts through the turn of the century and if I remember right, even earlier. I don’t always remember every single thing about something I have seen since I had some strokes last year. One thing I did remember though–I found a beautiful quilt creat with winding feathers and all kinds of really fancy beautiful quilting. The display said that women would sit in the window of stores and quilt on the sewing machines to entice women to purchase the machines. I think there was a catalog for that exhibit.
I have seen quilts from the turn of the century up to the present that are utilitarian style quilt tops and not very good ones at that, or the quilt tops that are poor quality. I wouldn’t ever quilt anything with an overall quilt pattern (such as the meandering that is so overused today), but I know some pretty good longarm quilters and I sure admire their accomplishments in their quilting styles. The new long arm quilting machines have many controls to enable a variety of styles that were difficult if not impossible in the past such as grids. They also have good speed control so that the stitch length doesn’t vary if you go faster or slower. Ike Winner has a number of long arm machines and he sure knows how to use them. Peace and blessings, Annie
From: “Karan Flanscha”
It seems that the “machine quilting” vs. “hand quilting” debate has not lost any of it’s steam over the years!! I <thought> maybe we had gotten to a point where we could appreciate each as a related but separate art. I started quilting in the early 70’s (when I was in high school), so it has been interesting to watch the changes in methods and attitudes over the years. I took a quilting class in 1977, I had already made 2 bedsize quilts, and taught myself to hand quilt… took the class more to meet other quilters than anything. The teacher was an elderly lady, when I said I had made 2 quilts already, she asked me to bring them in & show the class. I took the blue one the next week. It is a “Snail’s Trail” or “Virginia Reel” in 2 shades of blue. She was making nice comments about it until I mentioned that it was machine pieced (hand quilted). She then announced to the class that “Anything done by machine is garbage and should be burned!” She was so anti-machines, she would not even use an iron to press her seams… which wobbled back and forth, and you could tell that in her finished (but all by hand!) quilts. The pendulum keeps swinging… before the 1850’s, there was no choice… once sewing machines were available… quilters who could, machine pieced & machine quilted… to “show off” that they could afford a sewing machine!! In the early 1970’s, machine quilting was looked down upon… now it has been elevated to an art form (by some doing fabulous work today). Personally, I feel there are different techniques appropriate to different quilt projects… and aren’t we fortunate to live in a time when we have so many options!! I think we should support one another and encourage quilting in general…not be trashing someone because they choose a different method than the one(s) that you prefer. The one thing that brought me up short in this discussion, was that some of the quilts I made when I first started are now 30 years old… and being referred to as “antiques” or maybe “near antiques”!! Yikes, now that is a scarry thought!! The blue Snail’s Trail has seen the ravages of time… and also… is deteriorating due to the products I used to construct it. The poly/cotton thread is cutting through the cotton fabric along the seams, the poly batting (really about the only thing you could find back then), has abraded little holes in the patches all over the quilt 🙁 And the poly/cotton backing (it was less expensive than the cotton for the top), has been bearding since before the quilt was finished. The poly batting has “compressed” so the lovely loft it had at first is just a memory. I switched to cotton batting & all cotton thread a long time ago… and this poor quilt is shown to give a good visual of what can happen over the years. I can imagine someone documenting this quilt in 50 years, and saying how sad it was so abused. Maybe I need to make a label to explain what has caused this. It has certainly made me more conscious of what I am putting into my quilts… as I hope they will last longer than 30 years!! Happy Stitching, Karan
PS The exhibit that Annie referred to was “Patterns of Progress: Quilts in the Machine Age” at the Autry Museum of Western Heritage in Los Angeles, CA, 1997, curated by Barbara Brackman, with an exhibit catalog/book by the same name.
From: Laura Robins-Morris
We’ve heard often about the abrasive action of polyester batts and thread on cotton fabrics. But what about poly batts with cotton/poly fabric? It the part-poly fabric stronger and therefore less likely to be weakened by the poly batting and cotton/poly thread? Have any of you seen the same abrasion on cotton/poly fabrics??
Laura in Seattle (Worried because my first quilt is mostly polyester. It is a Hawaiian quilt started in the 70s when the solid color fabrics, in Honolulu at least, were cotton/poly. Also, polyester batts were/are recommended for their poof to enhance the quilting. It took 19 years to finish and I want it to last a long long time.)
Re: hand quilting vs. machine quilting: I mostly hand quilt because I like it and because I’m not all that friendly with my machine — it hasn’t yet learned who’s boss <g>. I totally admire the skill it takes to do the fine and intricate machine quilting you frequently see today. Will my machine ever learn???!
From: “Marcia Kaylakie”
Dear Laura, I have heard that machine are “trainable” but bribes might be necessary. For me, it was like wrestling with a boa constrictor! Marcia
From: Donald Beld <donbeld@>
Hi everyone–I have been advised privately that someone took exception–how often that happens–to my comment about modern cotton thread having an acidic reaction to 19th Century cottons.
I probably did not explain what I was saying very well. It is more properly a “chemical” reaction of some type–I am not a chemist. I do know from personal experience of having made a number of quilts with antique 19th Century fabric that modern thread seems to easily damage some old fabrics. In particular, I made a small doll’s quilt that has a brown leaf pattern from the 1870’s that an off white thread cut right through it even before I had finished quilting it. I also had a similar problem in a maroon fabric. Much like the sun tears we so often see in those old quilts. I also know–as I am sure many of you do–from handling old fabrics that have not been put in quilts that they have a totally different “feel” to them.
Didn’t mean to upset anyone. If I did I am sorry. Don Beld
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Don — I think I know what you are trying to express. It is not the fact that the thread is new which creates the problem; it is the fabric itself. I have used thread from 1890s to 1940s [still do] on cottons of all types from sheer to top/medium weight and ages from 1880s to more recent and have experienced in some cases that which you have. Old/new thread on old fabric, old/new thread on new fabric; it’s in the particular properties of that fabric or in the storage/care of that fabric or a combo. Fabric goes through so many production processes that it is by nature more acidic or chemical than thread. Fabrics can hide their damage well; hold them up to a sunny window and so much can be scrutinized as to their health. And no, I don’t think your comments were at all upsetting. We all have experiences to share and try to describe them best as we can.
From: “Laurette Carroll”
Hello Laura, I have not found poly batts to be harmful to my own quilts. I have been quilting for over 20 years now and used both cotton and poly batts in those earlier quilts. They have been used and washed over the years and the poly filled have not fared any worse than the cotton filled.
I do have one scrap quilt that was one of my first quilts and much used, which is now showing a lot of wear and is interesting. The batt is cotton, the fabrics are a mixture of cotton and cotton/poly blends. The fabrics that are wearing out are the less expensive or bargain type fabrics that I picked up somewhere and used in the quilt. They just get thinner and thinner until they get a tear. The better fabrics, no matter the content are faring well.
My first large quilt was poly filled, and the fabrics are still strong after 20 + years of use. Another that comes to mind having just seen it on my daughter’s bed, is also poly filled, and though used often over the years, the quilt shop fabrics are still strong and colorful, and the batting still fluffy.
My friendship group has discussed the wear of quilts over the years, many of them long time quilters. All feel that the batting doesn’t make as much difference as the quality of the fabrics used in the quilt. The general opinion is that when a quilt is in constant use it will last between 20 -30 years, IF used and cared for gently, less if it is not. One lady complains that her daughter is so hard on the quilts that they are worn out in less than 5 years! Another lady who machine quilts her cotton filled quilts, says they get about 10 years of hard use by her family. Another told me that she started quilting after she bought some new looking 1930’s quilts, and after a couple of years of use and washing they were completely worn out!!!
Laurette Carroll Southern California
Look to the Future With Hope
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:18:57 -0400 | From: “Candace Perry” <candace@>
Friends, I am posting this on behalf of my colleagues at the Mennonite Heritage Center in Harleysville, PA (we PA Germans gotta stick together). Anyway, they are trying to mount this very worthy exhibition…which would be great for building their audience…and any help you might wish to extend, or advice you could provide them with, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Candace Perry, Schwenkfelder Library & Heritage Center
The Mennonite Heritage Center, a museum and historical library in Harleysville, PA will host a unique and exciting quilt exhibit from August 1 to September 31, 2005. The exhibit: Threads of Faith: Recent Works by the Women of Color Quilters Network features 33 quilts by 31 African American quilt artists from the Women of Color Quilters Network. The Women of Color Quilters Network, led by quilt historian Dr.Carolyn Mazloomi, is a non profit organization of over 1700 members devoted to fostering and preserving the art of quilt making among African American quilt makers. Their work has been exhibited in numerous exhibits in national and international museums and galleries. The Threads of Faith exhibit will be a wonderful opportunity for area fine arts enthusiasts, quilters, suburban and urban congregations, and the community at large to view quilts created from a deep and vibrant quilt making tradition. The quilts are wall hangings that represent a blending of African and European religious traditions and illustrate a variety of interpretations, styles, uses and techniques. Many of the artists experiment with non-traditional quilting materials, such as shell beads, metal, glass and bone. These striking quilts are divided into five thematic categories: biblical narratives, women and family, prayers and spiritual mediations, worship through the arts, and African American experiences. The Threads of Faith exhibit had its inaugural exhibition at the Gallery of the American Bible Society in New York City in January of this year. During the ten weeks the exhibition was on display the ABS Gallery experienced the highest number of visitors in its history. The Mennonite Heritage Center is excited about plans for this exhibit, as quilts represent a tradition of shared faith, community, and creativity that are important to both African American and Pennsylvania German Mennonite women’s experience. We are currently working to raise the funds needed to bring this exhibit to our community and would like to invite area businesses and interested individuals to help sponsor this dynamic exhibit. Categories of sponsorship are: Golden Sponsors; $1,000 and above, Sponsors: $500, Friends: $100, and Supporters: $50. Patrons of the exhibit will be included in all exhibit publicity and listed in the gallery space. To inquire about exhibit sponsorship or for information about the exhibit, please contact Director Sarah Heffner at the Mennonite Heritage Center, PO Box 82, 565 Yoder Road, Harleysville, PA 19438, and phone: 215-256-3020, email; sarahhmhep.org.
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:49:22 -0700 | From: “Laurette Carroll” <rl.carroll@>
I took a workshop from Barbara Brackman many years ago about finishing old tops. She suggested that anything over 50-60 years is too old to quilt. The reasoning is that the strong new thread would damage the older fabrics.
About the same time I bought an old 1880’s charm quilt top with about 400 different fabrics, and naively decided it needed to be quilted. This was a poor idea, but it was a good learning tool at the same time. I found that most of the fabrics held up well to the new quilting, but about 20 percent of the fabrics were showing damage from my small stitches, the thread cutting through the fabrics. I increased the size if the stitches for better results, and did finish the quilt. However, I know if I wash it the damage will be devastating to the quilt top.
I have also quilted a 1930’s charm quilt top and had better results, but some fabrics did show damage from the quilting thread, and this is another that won’t get washed, by my hands anyway. So, I have come to realize that Brackman’s guidelines of 50 – 60 years is probably about right.
She had another suggestion that I have used instead. Put a new backing on the quilt top, and bring the edges around to the front, basting it down. If you feel it needs more support, you can add a few ties to hold the two layers together. (I have not found this necessary.)This gives the appearance of a finished quilt, without harming the fabrics, and adds strength to the top.
After many years of collecting and learning about antique quilts, IMO an old quilt top should probably not be quilted. They are very seldom quilted as they would have been quilted back then, and I have seen too many of them finished and popped in the washer and ruined. And the nicer the quilt top the more I believe this is true. There is much to be said for leaving an old quilt top as is. The fabrics are usually still bright and colorful and will remain so, the stitching on the back can be seen, they take up little storage space, and they are easy to handle and display. And of course the history, or more importantly, the integrity of the quilt top is not compromised, and this has become more important to me over the years.
So those are my well learned 2 cents, Laurette
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:51:56 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Joan said:
It is not the fact that the thread is new which creates the problem; it is the fabric itself. * * * * *
Might I add this? It is not even the fabric itself that is in question. I agree with Joan that all the processes used in creating the fabric, not the least of which are dyes, are to blame for disintegrating nineteenth century fabrics from the last half of the century.
Let me explain a little about dyeing, as I understand it. First of all, dye and cotton fibers have no natural affinity to each other. The solution? Mordants. What are mordants? Well, the word comes from the French word, morder (to bite). A mordant “sets up” the fabric, so to speak, so that is will accept dye, in other words, so that the dye will cling to the surface of the cloth. I suppose the mordant allows the dye to “bite” into the fabric, if you will.
One of the favorite dyes used be early dyers was madder from the natural madder root (now syntesized into a chemical dye). Iron was often applied to the surface of the cloth first, to act as a mordant. However, over time, the iron content of the cloth has oxidized, and this chemical reaction leaves the cotton fabric weak, split (as we see in silk Victorian Crazy quilts, too), or ready to crumble at the least provocation. Madder will dye cloth in a range of colors from pink to red to brown.
There have been all kinds of problems related to specific dyes and their tendencies to 1) not be colorfast and to run, 2) be non-permanent, “fugitive”, 3) be photo-sensitive (fading), and to interact with detergents. Black has always been and continues to be a problem color. Often, it will “crock off”, as they say, even if left completely alone on a shelf. It is prone to uneven fading.
The whole issue of dyeing cloth and the types of dye stuff used is an area for you to explore further, if you are interested. Like a lot of the arts, (colorists) dyers were often working with powders and potions that could be potentially very damaging to one’s health, especially if inhaled. Today, we are more aware of safety in the arts than ever before, having finally realized some lessons from the past.
To add to the problem of how early fabrics were processed, some of the early fabrics do have a different “feel” to them, as Don says. This could be partly due to the fact that many of them were much more loosely woven. In some cases, nineteenth century fabric is downright “brittle”. That is the cloth I think about when I say that I would never hand or machine quilt some of these pieces.
Just one other interesting thing I’ve learned about acid-free paper. Of course, you know that paper is a wood product and wood is acidic. Did you know that “acid-free” paper will revert to paper with acidic content? Yes, the ph becomes higher again, in time. That is why it is recommended that you “change” your acid-free inserts in the folds of old quilts, fairly frequently. Of course, I always wonder how old the paper is that one is buying and if it has already started regaining a higher ph. Ever since someone suggested using left over strips of batting in the folds, I’ve been doing that. It is recycling at its best, and less expensive (frugal Yankee that I am).
Pat
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:02:57 -0700 (PDT) | From: Donald Beld <donbeld@>
Thanks Judy for e-mailing me privately–you are quite correct–I misspoke, as usual. The cotton from then to now really is the same product; but the dying process of 19th century cotton versus 21rst century cotton is quite different. And that is what I was speaking to–they just don’t blend well–be it fabric or thread. New thread in old fabric will result in tearing–either immediately (as I have had happen) or over time (as I have also had happen). This probably is because the old fabric is more fragile than modern fabric–here again probably due to the dying process.
So many of the old dyes have caustic chemicals in them. Mercerization of cotton–which made it stronger when made–contains lye. Browns made with walnut dyes have the walnut acidity in them. Mordant printing and bleaching left residual chemicals that effect the fabric. Picric acid, used in yellow dyes, is, of course, highly volatile. Coaltar was mixed with bleach and is subject to deterioration. Sulphur dyes for browns has the same results.
So I guess what I was trying to say, in short, was that it is best not to mix the old and the new. Although cotton is the same, the chemical processes change over time and can create a negative synergistic effect. Don Beld
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:10:46 -0400 | From: “Karen Evans” <charter.net>
The most common dye mordant for madder was alum, not iron, as iron tends to darken the color. Alum produces bright, clean colors, including the famous Turkey Red. Other mordants used with natural dyes included chrome (very poisonous), copper, and tannin. Iron/tannin blacks do rot silk, as does copper, but most cottons weren’t appreciably damaged by mordants.
The problems with 19th century fabrics were twofold: first, aniline dyes (mainly derived from coal tars), and second, the 19th century mania for “scrooping,” a shush-shush sound produced when over-mordanted silk rustles. The extra mordanting usually did involve iron and copper, and that’s why so many 19th and early 20th century silks shatter when earlier silks are intact. The big problem with aniline dyes on cotton was that they often weren’t color fast, which is why there are so many muddy looking 19th century browns; Congo Red in particular *looked* like the expensive Turkey Red but had this nasty tendency to fade to tan when exposed to light.
A good source for information is J.N. Liles book on natural dyeing. There’s also a book solely on the 19th century aniline dye craze called Mauve. Fun reading, and quite useful.
Karen Evans
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:30:29 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Karen said:
Other mordants used with natural dyes included chrome (very poisonous), copper, and tannin.
Karen,
Wasn’t chrome used to make “chrome orange” and didn’t the process involve the use of arsenic? I forget the details, but arsenic was supposed to have been very dangerous to one’s health?
Pat
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:55:12 -0400 | From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Pat and Don — one also has to consider finishes such as sizing on fabrics which early on were clays, starches and glue compounds and mostly resins today, and in many cases were/are more harmful than dyes. While most of those washed off first time in the laundry, some of that gunk and gum did/does absorb into fiber to cause serious damage over time. Plus the fact that heavy sizing on fabrics loosely woven of inferior cotton strains resulted/results in weave collapsing once sizing has washed out. This makes both hand and machine sewing quite difficult.
Patricia L Cummings wrote:
> > Might I add this? It is not even the fabric itself that is in > question. I agree with Joan that all the processes used in creating > the fabric, not the least of which are dyes, are to blame for > disintegrating nineteenth century fabrics from the last half of the > century. > >
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:00:26 -0400 | From: “Karen Evans” <charter.net>
The chrome yellow process is quite toxic, which is why I don’t do it (I’m still working my way up to Turkey Red, which involves several mordanting steps and takes about a month before you can actually dye the cloth). The result is that great, ultra-bright 19th century cheddar cheese color, but the dye process itself was Not Safe.
The dyes I work with are primarily pre-19th century and reasonably safe. My favorite red is cochineal (also used as a food coloring), my favorite yellow is osage orange or occasionally saffron when I can afford it, and the best blue is indigo, hands down. Logwood on silk produces wonderful purples, but it’s not fast on cotton. And there’s this gorgeous rose dye you can get from lac….:)
Funny story: I made a batch of cochineal dye and stored it in the refrigerator. The dye liquor is an intense magenta red, and looks amazingly like cranberry juice. My ex-husband loves cranberry juice and started to pour himself a glass of cochineal before he realized what it was….
Karen Evans
From: Kris Driessen
When people ask me if they should quilt an old top, I will usually ask them what will bring them the most pleasure. Yes, I do warn about threads cutting the fabric, and strongly suggest Quilters Dream Request cotton batting (very thin) and a muslin back, but I don’t discourage the quilting of old tops.
To me, a quilt top has no value in a dresser drawer. Unless it is something that is of historical importance to you or your family (in which case, it should be archivally preserved), it should be out to be used and enjoyed by the family. How else will your friends and family learn to appreciate textiles? How many of us have found quilts at garage sales, on flea market tables, or bundled to go to the dump? Some people simply don’t care, but some people WOULD care if they had any realization of the importance of a textile, both at the time it was made and now. We aren’t going to educate those people by keeping our treasures hidden away.
Yes, quilting an old top will shorten it’s lifespan. Is the pleasure it brings the owner worth that price? Only the owner can say. Give them the advantages and disadvantages of quilting an old piece and let them make the decision.
Kris, presently taking apart an old top to be remade
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:55:24 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Hi there:
I was curious about Karen’s remark that madder was only mordanted with alum, and I glanced through some reference material in my library. In /Natural Dyes and Home Dyeing/ by Rita J. Adrosko, she mentions “iron buff” which apparently was a dissolvable metal which could be used as a mordant. She states: ….”iron oxides were most important for both mordanting and dyeing. They were a very common, albeit dull, source of color in household dyeing throughout the 18th and 19th centureies.” She goes on to say that bits of old iron such as nails were soaked in acid. An 1811 source refers to beer also being used to soak the iron in before a “buff dyeing session”. In another area of the book, the author mentions using this iron buff mixture, including ferrous sulfate, as part of a recipe for dyeing unmordanted cotton.
In Barbara Brackman’s new book, /America’s Printed Fabric/ /1770-1890/, she refers to madder brown fabrics that were mordanted with iron. (p. 101) and goes into quite a bit of descriptive detail.
Based on these two brief references, I believe that iron was indeed used as a mordant on some cotton fabrics, including madder prints.
Pat Cummings www.quiltersmuse.com
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:12:28 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Full citation of the book that Karen recommends is:
J.N. Liles, The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing (Knoxville: University of Tennessee, 1991).
Oh, forgot to add that B. Brackman goes into quite a bit of detail about how iron oxidizes and how it has affected antique madder cotton prints, leaving holes in the fabric, etc.
Pat
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 19:19:09 EDT | From: ARabara15@
Another option to use a top that has not been quilted is to tack the top. Use a cotton batting that will not lump up if washed (or a cotton flannel sheet or blanket) and tack the quilt at the intersections of blocks or at seams. The seams will be stronger than the single ply fabric. Cotton embriodery thread can be used and if you don’t want to see the knots, tie them from underneath. You can also tack it without the batting and use it as a summer spread or throw. Another option would be to bind the edges and use it as a summer spread without the backing. Tops do not neccesarily need to be quilted to be used and enjoyed. Best Regards,
Donald Brokate The Crazy Quilt Collector Trenton NJ
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:48:21 -0700 | From: “Christine Thresh” <christine@>
I have a reference here about madder dyeing. It is from the booklet *An Introduction to Natural Dyeing* by Robert and Christine Thresh, 1972. The recipes in the book are all for dyeing WOOL. Cotton is much harder to dye.
“Early dyers discovered that the same dye liquor would give different colors when heated in an iron pot, a copper pot, a tin pot, etc. “We now know that natural dyeing is a chemical process. A mordant is needed to develop certain colors, and to hold the colors fast so they won’t wash out or fade. The word mordant come from the Latin word mordere, which means ‘to bite.” “Six basic mordants are suggested for the recipes in this book. They are: Tin (stannous chloride), Chrome (potassium bichromate), Alum (potassium aluminum), Iron (ferrous sulfate) or rust, Copper sulfate (blue vitrol), Cream of tartar.
“Madder Root [1 pound dye lot] for RED use: 3/4 cup Madder root (course ground) 1 1/2 tablespoons alum mordant 1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar water
“Substitute 1/2 teaspoon tine mordant for Bright Orange or 1/2 teaspoon chrome mordant for Red-Orange.”
Christine Thresh http://www.@
