April 3 – 6, 2004
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Fabric & Textile Restoration Questions — Members ask for advice on restoring quilts with vintage fabrics and on fireproofing a textile wall hanging. (see the article on quilt restoration)
- Sewing Machine History — A brief exchange touches on the history of the sewing machine and its role in quiltmaking.
- Sampler Quilt Identification — A long-running, good-humored thread debates what figure is stitched into a mystery sampler quilt (settling on a football punter).
- UGRR Scholarship & Authorship Debate — A serious discussion begins over who is qualified to write about the Underground Railroad quilt-code claims and the scholarship behind ‘Hidden in Plain View.’
- Quilt History Resources Update — A member notes new additions to the Alliance for American Quilts website.
From: “Rowan, Samantha (NY)”
I was looking for information on Marion Cheever Whiteside Newton and her quilts–does anyone know if you can buy copies of the patterns anywhere? They are so pretty!
I’ve got the Little Women one but that is all.
Sam
From: Ark Quilts <quiltarkmv@>
This sampler looks like some of the embroidery work depicted on the cover of “Needlework” magazine in the 1930’s (published in Augusta, Maine). The magazine published instructions for crewel embroidery for a series of native American scenes (including Pocahontas) and depicted the United States in map form. All designed by the same person. I won’t have access to the magazine issues I have until this evening, but someone else has a “stash” they can check.
Connie Ark – where it is still cold in Ohio!
From: “jocelynm@”
> depicting local interest. I’m curious about Indiana, which seems to depict > a Folies Bergeres high-kicker in orange knickerbockers…..?<G> > Sally! That’s an American football player! <G> I believe that’s a reference to Knute Rockne, the famous football coach of Notre Dame University (in Indiana) who was killed in a plane crash here in Kansas at the age of 43, at the height of his coaching prowess.
He was the one who exhorted his team to ‘Win one for the Gipper’. The Gipper was played by Ronald Reagan in a movie about Rockne. The Gipper was one o f the 4 Horsemen of the Apocolypse, the famous backfield (part of an Americ an football team) that outscored their opponents dramatically.
From: “Julia D. Zgliniec”
Dear Samantha and All, The American Quilt Study Group’s Uncoverings 1995 has a paper on Marion Cheever Whiteside Newton. The New England Quilt Museum had an exhibit of Story Book Quilts April-June 1998.
I also have a note in my files that patterns can be ordered from: Henrietta Whiteside Tranum P.O. Box 812173 Wellesley, MA 02181
This information is several years old.
Hope this is helpful and if any of this resource is incorrect- please let me know.
Regards, Julia Zgliniec
From: “Judy Anne” <anne_j@>
Audrey, Thanks for letting us know about the sewing machine history site. I was amazed to find they have published a full out of print book. What a great resource. I’ve added links to it from related pages on my sites.
I want to let people know there is a new addition for our list of links to information on UGRR quilts. It’s “Quilts and the Underground Railroad Revisited: Interview with Historian Giles R. Wright” at http://www.antiquequiltdating.com/ugrrwrightinterview.html
The article has information and several links to information about the UGRR in general and Wright’s thoughts on the quilt myth from the point of view of a UGGR researcher.
This interview and his article, “New Jersey’s Underground Railroad Myth-Buster” at http://historiccamdencounty.com/ccnews11.shtml has helped me realize that quilts are only one of several myths that have evolved about the UGRR.
Judy Anne
From: “Judy Anne” <anne_j@>
The link I gave earlier to the New jersey article on UGRR myths links to a critique Wright wrote on HIPV but you will find an updated critique he wrote at http://www.antiquequiltdating.com/ugrrwrightcritiqueHIPV.html It’s also more readable as the original was a scanned copy.
I am amazed at how many quilters think that the use of quilts as signals in the UGRR is a new discovery. When they hear I have a site on quilt history they immediately begin to talk about it. I don’t think it has anything to do with race as both black and white quilters are quite taken in by the myth if they lack any information on the scholarly research done on this topic. OTOH both black and whites who are aware of the research realize that the conclusions of HIPV are dubious. Anyone’s attempt to make it a racial thing is way off base.
I suspect that the myth didn’t originate with recent children’s books though children’s books and HIPV certainly promoted it. But I am sure the stories were around in my childhood of the late 40s. Does anyone here have any information about early stories about quilts used as signals? It would be interesting to know not because it would prove anything but the history of the myth itself is a fascinating study.
Judy Anne
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Hello:
Judy, thanks for posting the link to the latest interview with Giles Wright. While I did not find any new information, I would like to take umbrage with the remark that Tobin should not have been writing about African American history because she is not black.
History is fair game for any or all of us to consider, reflect upon, try to understand, and yes, to write about, whether or not we are members of a particular ethnic group. One would hope that Wright would realize that his remark smacks of prejudice.
I am sure that most scholars who have studied the book have looked to verification aspects, not to the color of the author’s skin. In other words, unsubstantiated information is just that, no matter if the author is green, purple, or orange. Of course, if the author were any of those colors, they’d probably be martians and then we’d have to be at least a little bit suspicious!
Pat Cummings
From: Xenia Cord <xenia@>
Whoops! I have to agree with Pat that skin color should not be a qualification for researching and writing on any subject. Twice this has resulted in funny situations for me: a couple of years ago I went into a neighboring county to speak to the local historical society about those black communities that thrived in Indiana prior to the Civil War. My host, the society president, introduced me to the evening’s chairperson, who blurted out “But you’re not BLACK!” when she saw me.
Last week, on the same subject, a person talking about the UGRR in Indiana showed her audience a map of black communities in Indiana prior to the Civil War, a map created by me for the articles I published on this topic, and announced to the audience that I was a black author. She was corrected by one of my friends in the audience, who told her (correctly) that I am Norwegian.
My race and my heritage have nothing to do with the subjects that interest me, and on which I have done extensive research. Scholars should be scholars, period…not black scholars or Norwegian scholars or women scholars.
Stepping down from the soapbox – Xenia
From: “J. G. Row” <JudyGrow@>
Xenia,
I am sure you have everyone’s permission to step up on that soapbox anytime! You write what many of (most of– all of) us are thinking, but are far more eloquent than we (I) could ever be.
Judy ” Ringo” in Ringoes, NJ judygrow@
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:01:04 -0700 | From: <chrisa@>
If one on you, Pat, Judy, or Xenia, would send me the quote where Giles says someone would have to be black in order to write about black history, I will send the concern on to him for his response and then share that with the list. Both he and I would be surprised by such a statement ourselves.
I would be curious to know if anyone else besides Pat thinks there is nothing new in this interview? We think there is and that was the point of writing it. I appreciate list input very much and will pass on to Giles any comments of value. I also had the school teachers in mind when I wrote the questions and provided the additional links within the answers Giles’ gave.
Thank you, Kim Wulfert www.antiquequiltdating.com
From: Patricia L Cummings
Dear Kim:
I purposely did not quote directly what Giles had said. Your post note made it abundantly clear that portions of the text were not to be “quoted”.
I am not personally going to sift through the information again.
Your quote to the list which follows does not accurately reflect what Giles said in the manuscript. Please review his actual words.
“If one on you, Pat, Judy, or Xenia, would send me the quote where Giles says someone would have to be black in order to write about black history, I will send the concern on to him for his response and then share that with the list. Both he and I would be surprised by such a statement ourselves.”
Date: Mon, 05 Apr | From: Gail Ingram <gingram@>
Since I am not privy to the reported statement about one having to be black to write about black art or black anything else, I should keep my mouth shut.
Howsomever, into the gap: It is perfectly possible for one of any color, given the right kind of education, to analyze and grasp certain elements about a work of art. For years such perspective was almost all that was tolerated in women scholars. I studied the work of John Milton, not exactly a devot=E9 of the ladies. The spell under which that writing cast me has neve r faded. Similarly, William Faulkner, 20th-century America’s great contribution to the literary art of fiction, (and a man who DID love the ladies) is the writer whose works I would take with me on that mythical desert island.
And yet even as a young grad student, I knew both missed some things—about Eve, say, or about women in general in the work of Faulkner, which greatly romanticizes women’s strengths and characters. These men wrote from their experience, and one of their limitations was their gender. They couldn’t know some things about women.
Eudora Welty, who lived down the highway from Faulkner knew just how catty and tacky women could be. Read “The Petrified Man,” for instance. She also knew how forebearing and noble they could be. See “A Worn Path.” And frankly, in stories like “The Wide Net,” I think she got men and marriage down better than her more famous compeer in Oxford. But she choose to write mostly about women, probably a wise decision.
Our experience always advantages and limits us in understanding others.
Take, for instance, the noble Judy Ringo, former Miss Atlantic City. When I told her I was going to quilt a basket quilt from Bristol, TN that is the most bodacious thing anyone would want to see (see DSQSG PHOTOS), she replied, “Throw that thing away. Dont dint it with a needle. It is UGLY.” Judy lives among PA and Northeastern glories. Covers made for art’s sake. Merikay Waldvogel, under the influence of a sip or two of wine, wrote, “Go for it, girl!” Merikay is a Tennesseean and grew up among quilts like this , quilts made to warm the body as well as the heart. Somewhere in her experience was an appreciation for country quilts that had nothing to do with academic training. A knowledge down in the bone marrow. That knowledge made me want to preserve that crazy quilt.
I cannot imagine that it would be otherwise with African-Americans, Anglos, Hispanics, and all the other ethnic groups. But to acknowledgge that, is no t to say one cannot come to understand and appreciate a different aesthetic. It’s just that one is almost surely unlikely to understaand it in its fullnesss the way its maker’s group understands it.
And I’m hoping that is what Dr. Wright meant.
I just reread Bets Ramsey’s article on “Southern Quilts” in “Uncoverings” an d she points out that unlike quilts in some parts of the country, these demonstrate the art of “making do.” There is a beauty in their thick batts, their idiosyncratic designs. But it is a beauty that those of us who grrew up among them must appreciate more than, say, the Ringo Kid.
Gail
Date: Mon, 05 Apr | From: Xenia Cord <xenia@>
Mea culpa! I must admit that I did not read the revised critique, but merely responded to the comments made by Pat. I suspect the sentences in question, however, are these:
<Neither of the co-authors is a black historian. In order to write knowledgeably about the UGRR, you must first be a student of the larger black historical experience in which the story of the UGRR is located.>
While Wright does not directly say so, he suggests that being a black historian is a necessary qualification to write knowledgeably about the black historical experience. Surely that was not his intent. What is important here, anyway, is the larger sense of history being set right by a thoughtful, thorough review of HIPV that expresses the shortcomings all of us have recognized.
Let us not strain at gnats… Xenia
From: “J. G. Row” <JudyGrow@>
Well, Excuuuuuuuuse me!!! Mizruz Ingram, have you forgotten (so soon) who brought that basket quilt to your attention?
We Delaware Valley folk have empathy for you Deep Southern folk, and although we are unlikely to fully understand the aesthetic that produced those “bodacious” quilts in fullllnessss the way ya’ll understand, still, in friendship, we are happy that you are keeping that quilt in the Deep South, where it surely belongs.
Judy ” Ringo” judygrow@
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:31:59 -0700 | From: <chrisa@>
Thank you Xenia for your thoughtful response. In fairness to you and Giles, I will ask him to respond. I am not certain however, if you are talking about the interview or the critique?
I wonder if we were taking about being a French history historian scholar, rather than black history historian scholar, if that would have made more sense to the other readers who were jarred. The author’s backgrounds are described in Giles response, and neither is the latter.
Gail, your response is one I can agree with. The most relevant part of this is how well educated or studied someone in a field he writes about. I wanted Giles to talk about his educational background and his position in the current job he has. he felt it would not be appropriate here and ooops- my ride just came and I’m not clothed. I’ll finish this later. I’m going to an architect’s talk on “patterning.” Sounds interesting!
Kim
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
No, Xenia, I was not referring to that particular passage but to the more direct attack on Tobin as being unqualified to write the book (relying on memory here), presumably because she is not an African-American historian, if one reads the rest of the text.
You must admit that the list has been pretty inactive lately. Here’s something to get our winter blood circulating yet again!
Poor Jacqueline Tobin. She apparently has to take all the blame now. I’d hate to be her. In the meantime, her co-author is still gives lectures. Hmmmmm…..
In speaking of straining gnats and swallowing elephants, we’d be swallowing a gigantic elephant if we were to unilaterally blame Tobin for HIPV. Just my (as usual) not-so-humble opinion. teeheehee.
Pat
From: Gail Ingram
I never forget who brings a quilt to my attention. I write their names down: that’s why. And I thought that my friend Judy had imbibed some of our suthern charm. I fell for it immediately—without a glass of wine.
That is why I was surprised at Judy Ringo’s advice not to dint it with a needle.
As I basted it, I had much pleasure imagining individuals (possibly at the Grand Ole Opry or some version more local) or church wearing dresses made frm those fabrics, for clearly this is a scrapbag quilt.
Moreover, since I have had quilt tops quilted for me and have not quilted anything but baby quilts since Bobby Kennedy died, this has anoher advantage. My quilting cannot be excelled by m’lady’s piecing.
Just read Bets Ramsey for more help in fullness.
And I caught that final remark. and am proud to be from a place where this wild quilt belongs.
Judysue Kelius has a very prim version of the same quilt.
Shows difference in people, cultures, circumstances.
Moreover, I hope if you come across another such bodacious quilt, you will call it to my attention. I might become Queen of the Bodacity.
Gail
From: Donald Beld
Did anyone else see the fabulous quilt on Antique Road Show tonight? I want to make a reproduction of the quilt and didn’t catch what books it has been featured in. If anyone knows please either response on the chat line or e-mail me privately. Very unusual application of the designs. A documented slave quilt c. 1830 is wonderful to see. Also, note the crossroads center square–more fuel for the possibility that crossroads had meaning to slaves. Also, could the outer surround pattern be a variation of crossed canoes? Also a possible slave meaning pattern.
Finally, on Jacki Tobin issue–she is quite capable of defending herself and I HAVE NOT read the article in question. But Jacki is a women’s issues instructor and quilting certainly can be considered a women’s issue. In fact it is my theory that quilting–especially designing and naming quilt patterns in the 19th Century is THE women’s issue of the 19th Century. Note all the political, social, and luminary blocks women in the 19th Century designed, named and made to express themselves on these issues. God knows there were few other ways for them to do so.
And, Bravo, Pat for being brave enough to give Jacki credit for her qualifications. Let’s stick to discussion of issues on the subject of UGRR symbolism and not lower ourselves to attacking people. We all are better than that. Don Beld
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 | From: “Judy Anne” <anne_j@>
I just got my digest and read the various reactions to Giles Wright’s remarks.
Pat,
>>One would hope that Wright would realize that his remark smacks of prejudice.<<
I think it relates to his frustration with what whites have written about the black experience in history. He’s obviously run into the same problem in other areas concerning the UGRR and Black American history in general. In one paragraph he refers to Tobin’s carelessness in writing her book involving black history and asks, “Would she have treated any other people’s history in such a way?”
Basically I think she would have treated anyone’s history that way because she is careless about substantiating what she writes about. But from Wright’s vantage point he sees it differently.
Xenia,
>>My race and my heritage have nothing to do with the subjects that interest me,<<
I have a black friend who is a quilt artist and finds people are shocked when they discover a black woman has made those quilts. Her quilts tend to be traditional with an artistic twist. But she finds that many people expect a black woman to make quilts that look like something from Gees Bend.
Judy Anne
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Don wrote:
“And, Bravo, Pat for being brave enough to give Jacki credit for her qualifications. Let’s stick to discussion of issues on the subject of UGRR symbolism…”
Good idea, Don. The whole subject of UGRR, as it relates to quilt blocks, or not, is far more important than any individual who would have a thought or opinion about others who have attempted to address it in writing.
I feel bad for Jacqueline Tobin who is being targeted as a scapegoat for all of the discrepancies found in Hidden in Plain View. No mention is made of Dobard’s contributions and we know that he IS African American and he IS an art historian, professor, iconographer, lecturer, etc. Maybe it is easier for Wright to zero in on Tobin personally and to make “blanket statements” about her lack of credentials rather than to comment on the co-author.
I can’t speak for Tobin’s qualifications although I’ve been told that she has a master’s degree and teaches at the college level. Does anyone really believe that HIPV would have been more factually correct if Tobin’s skin were black or if she had had more instruction in Black History? The “facts” of the matter, i.e. proof of a hidden secret quilt code, are not forthcoming from /anyone/. If this information were readily available, say, for the price of a college course, do you think that it would not have been published by now? No, Tobin seems to have been a gullible soul, willing to believe and to relay the words of Ozella McDaniel Williams, who, in her own cunning way, has made a name for herself, if only posthumously.
In reading anything, I first look to see if it makes any sense TO ME. I consider the credentials of the author only after having read the book or article. If we all had to have a Ph.D. degree to be a writer, there would be a whole lot less being published. If we had to belong to a certain ethnic group to read about and try to understand a particular culture, with the intention of writing about it, there would be far fewer ethnic subjects presented.
The Underground Railroad is an intriguing topic and one that merits revisiting. Undeniably, it is a very important part of American history. Until proven otherwise, it is not a part of quilt history. That, in essence, is the bottom line.
Pat
Date: Tue, 6 Apr | From: DDBSTUFF@
Samantha Rowan & Julia Zgliniec
Henrietta Whiteside Tranum is the niece of Marion Cheever Whiteside Newton and her address is P.O. Box 812873, Wellesley, MA. O2482 .
I understand that only a few of the patterns are available.
There was a nice article in the Sept/Oct, 1997 issue of Piecework. You can still order a copy of this issue for $10.00.
Hope this helps.
Darwin
Date: Tue, 6 | From: “Candace Perry” <candace@>
The way I interpreted Mr. Wright’s remarks was that one needed to be an historian of black American heritage, not a “black” historian. It’s splitting hairs but of course he’s right…the HIPV is essentially lifted out of a larger historical context and when it is dropped back into it, it doesn’t hold up. And I am CERTAIN that Mr. Wright (although I don’t know the man, but judging from his remarks) would not feel that one’s skin color would impact that sort of analysis. Right? Candace Perry
From: “jocelynm@” <jocelynm@>
> It’s just that one is almost surely unlikely to understand it in its > fullnesss the way its maker’s group understands it.
Important to remember that skin color is not the sole requirement for beingin ‘the maker’s group’- a Black historian from Texas and one from New Jersey would surely have as great a difference in perspective as you and Judy o. 🙂
Skin color is no guarantee that one did, or did not, have the right kinds of personal experience to have the same outlook as any other person. It may HELP, but other factors play in as well. A Black historian from a wealthy urban Northern family isn’t going to instantly understand all the nuances ofbeing a poor rural Southern Black, and a White person from a poor family i n the rural South may more quickly grasp those nuances…or even a White pe rson from the urban North who’s devoted time and energy to being taught by people who know.
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:59:21 EDT | From: Midnitelaptop@
everytime i see the letters UGRR in the subject line…like Lucy in peanuts…i shout ARRGH! and delete.. jeanL
Date: Tue, 6 | From: “Christine Thresh” <christine@>
Ignorance is bliss.
From: Bob Shaw
The Alliance for American Quilts (www.centerforthequilt.org) is conducting drawings for a beautiful limited edition quilt print by Judy Serverson. Every time 100 people register on our web site, we will draw from that pool of names and award a print.
If you have not recently visited the site, please take a look. The site continues to grow and is an invaluable resource for anyone who cares about quilts. Our searchable datebase, The Quilt Index (http://www.centerforthequilt.org/quiltindex.html), now includes photos and documentary information on more than 1000 historic and contemporary quilts, and we have posted over 230 in-depth interviews with quiltmakers across the country, including such masters as Georgia Bonesteel, Betty Ekern Suiter, Therese May, Irma Gail Hatcher, Joan Schulze, Paula Nadelstern, and Zena Thorpe at http://www.centerforthequilt.org/qsos/qsos_interviews.php. We also have wonderful new streaming video documentaries of key figures in the 20th century quilt revival, including Bonnie Leman, Cuesta Benberry, Jinny Beyer, Virginia Avery, Jean Ray Laury, Yvonne Porcella, and Joyce Gross at http://www.centerforthequilt.org/treasures/index.html.
Bob Shaw Executive Director The Alliance for American Quilts Tel//fax: 802/985-0737 shaw.bob@ www.centerforthequilt.org
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 | From: “Mary Persyn” <Mary.Persyn@>
I agree that the figure is supposed to be a Notre Dame (U.S.) football player. I find a couple of things interesting: 1) They chose ND football rather than any of the products, agricultural or manufacturing, that Indiana produced at that point in time (see Illinois and Michigan on the sampler for example); 2) Indiana University and Purdue University (two other big-time football schools in Indiana, Sally) got left out. Of course, that is only as it should be. (+: see below.
Mary University of Notre Dame class of 1982 (Law)
From: “Jocelyn Martin” <jocelynm@>
>While I did not find any new information, I would like to take u>mbrage with the remark that Tobin should not have been writing about >African American history because she is not black.
As Leonard Pitts (of the Miami Herald)stated in his most recent column:
‘We’ve (Blacks) spent 400 years trying to get white people to understand that black is not a flaw. Sometimes, though, we ourselves forget: It’s not a character reference, either.’
And, as I’m sure Mr. Pitts would agree, it’s not an academic credential, either.
The ‘you gotta be one to understand one’ viewpoint has enough truth to keep it going, and to keep it going long past the boundaries of truth. It’s true that any group we identify with will shape our viewpoint, so that those within the group see things in a similar way that’s not shared with those outside the group. Carried to its extremes, it would mean that we are doomed to have Black history and White history, and not much overlap between the two, if only Black historians are qualified to study Black history. They must, ipso facto, be less qualified to study Asian history than Asian people, and Black students are less capable of understanding Latino history than Latinos….in other words, we cannot learn, research or teach that which we don’t already know something about.
So does this mean that those who aren’t the descendants of quilters can’t learn about quilt history? 🙂
Date: Tue, 06 | From: “Jan Drechsler” <quiltdoc@>
Such strange figures of speech, Xenia and Pat. ‘Let’s not strain at gnats?’ If you have ever sat on the NJ shore at dusk, as Mizz Atlantic City has done no doubt, straining at gnats to keep them out of your eyes, ears, mouth, nose and food is a necessity. Hands waving, arms flapping, head shaking and face swatting are the common beach dance.
Yet, I have never used the phrase ‘strain at gnats.’ Where does that come from? It almost sounds biblical.
Meantime, Pat is in New Hampshire swallowing elephants (not a native animal to NH). Pat, that is a funny phrase. Is this common? Any clue to its origin? (Probably not biblical.)
Thanks for the mental images. I did not mean to make light of Kimberly’s interview with Giles, since I know she has worked hard on the questions and format and getting it on her web page. While there may be nothing new to us, enlightened as we are <g>, I think that having a historian of the UGRR talk about HIPV is very important. And the feedback on the interview will be useful to rethink certain phrasing.
Jan — Jan Drechsler in Vermont Quilt Restoration; Quilting teacher www.@/~bobmills
From: “Christine Thresh” <christine@>
“Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel” (Matthew 23:23,24)
Just one gnat.
Christine Thresh
