May 10 – 13, 1997
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These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Amish quilts and “snobbish mystique” — a spirited debate over why Amish-made quilts often command higher prices than similar non-Amish work.
- Untangling Amish, Mennonite, and Pennsylvania Dutch — members sort out the cultural, religious, and linguistic differences between these often-confused groups and their quiltmaking traditions.
- Where Orvus soap came from — a bit of textile-conservation trivia: the mild detergent’s origins in the show-horse industry.
- “Puff” or “popcorn” quilts — members describe this pillow-like quilting technique and share their own experience making one.
- Quilts as deliberate communication — a discussion of quilts made to send an intentional message, distinct from a maker’s general self-expression.
- Mary Cross’s new book draws interest — readers respond to Quilts and Women of the Mormon Migrations and ask about ordering copies directly.
- Upcoming quilt exhibits — mentions of shows in Pittsburgh and at the Michigan State University Museum.
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:42:04 -0700 (PDT) | From: Mary Cross <mbcquilt [at] web-ster [dot] com>
Thanks for the interest in my new book. If you have difficulty getting your shop to order. Tell them they may order directly from Rutledge Hill Press at 1-800-234-4234 Otherwise, I would happy to send you a personalized copy. The price is $24.95 for softcover and $34.95 for hardcover. Also, if any of you are in eastern Iowa, I will be doing a booksigning in Iowa City/Coralville at the Hills Bank for benefit of the Johnson County Historical Society on May 16th in the late afternoon. One at the Barnes and Noble Store near Des Moines on the 21st at 7:30, and one at the Mormon History Convention in Omaha on the 23rd from 12-6 in the merchants area. In June, I’ll be in Wyoming along the Trail and in July, in Salt Lake for the 150th Celebration.
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 08:59:53 -0400 (EDT) | From: JOCELYNM [at] delphi [dot] com
On 9-MAY-1997 12:50:54.4 gridgees said to JOCELYNM >sending the box to Jocelyn Martin (who is on the QHL list) so she can >personally deliver the blocks to Terry. If you need Jocelyn’s >address, you can e-mail me privately, or e-mail Jocelyn at: >JOCELYN [at] delphi [dot] com To all late block makers: I think that quilt guild this month is on the 20th, so if you could get the block to me by that date, it can be included in the box that’s delivered to Terrie. I’ll call around and make sure of the date (technically, I’m not a member of the guild, but of another quilting group, but someone will know!) and post it here if there’s a change. BTW….I live here in Lawrence, so if you mail to me and miss the delivery, I can always drop it off at Barbara’s studio later. Jocelyn
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:10:25 -0400 | From: Diane McGuire <dianemcg [at] ici [dot] net>
Hi, all. Ricki Maietta’s narrative about how she approached the repair of a large tear on a quilt border inspired me to share an idea that came to me in the middle of the night last night.
I am working on restoration of a 1880ties quilt. The squares are hand pieced triangular baskets with half circle handles turned under and machine appliqu�d. It was found in a barn and had been the happy home for mice for quite some time. It was tied with heavy tan thread. Last summer my friend Carol and I took it outside and took it apart. The batting was lumpy and filthy. I saved a small piece in a plastic bag just for ID purposes. Now I am taking the squares apart. I plan to wash them and use the best of the squares and the best of the lattice (maybe half the present width depending on what I have left of the original) and reconfigure it into a new quilt.
I was planning to baste the individual squares on cotton batiste before I washed them and leaving it on the squares as reinforcement when I sewed them together again.
Last night I got another idea to try instead: make a washing slipcover (two layers on top and two on bottom) out of nylon net to support the fragile fabric while I gently washed the individual squares. I thought this would allow for better soap and water penetration because they really need cleaning.
Clear ivory liquid dish detergent was recommended to me. I have heard much about Orvis. Has anyone used the Ivory?
Anyone have any other ideas about washing the squares?
Should I try to add a layer of batiste inside to strentghen the original? I thought I might machine quilt lightly, but I am afraid the original fabric by itself is too fragile.
Thanks for considering my questions.
Diane in Massachusetts where my visiting Carolina wren sang to me again yesterday for the first time this year.
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 19:56:01 -0400 | From: Ricki Maietta <rmaietta [at] csrlink [dot] net>
A couple of people have mentioned “puff” quilts – also sometimes called “popcorn” quilts. I refer to them as little pillows sewn together.
Just to let you all know, I made a quilt like this a few years ago for my husband’s Christmas present. It was alot of fun, quick to make, & the neat part was keeping it a secret from someone so close at hand.
Well, we all fought over that quilt every chilly evening when it was time to snuggle down in front of the tv. Even the cat had to be squeezed to the side. This was the warmest, softest quilt ever! It would be perfect for babies, even to put on the floor for them to play on. We still have ours – faded, spills, leaking batting. It’s on our sunroom couch – we just sit on it now. But, if you need a quick project or gift, make a puff quilt!!
On a historical note – I have a 14″ square of velvet puffs that some Victorian person started to make. Don’t know if this was intended to be a pillow, a throw, or a “pretty”, but it is the most luscious velvet I’ve ever seen. Dark black, brown, maroon & a splash of turquois – colors in a “trip around the world” set.
Oh – the term “pretty” is from a lady named Jane Ingersoll. She is the textile curator of our local museum, Lycoming County Historical Museum in Williamsport, PA. Jane, who is in her 80s, says this is what her mother called small pillow-sized items that the Victorians put on display around their parlours. She donated one to the museum that her mother had made. It is a fan, pieced like a typical “grandmother’s fan” quilt pattern, but just the fan, not the background fabric. It is all silks & velvets, with beautiful embroidery like a crazy quilt, & with ruffled lace along the edge of the fan. It is backed with a white silk, has a tassle hanging from it just like a real fan. Jane says her mother either hung it on the wall, put on the back of a chair, or draping from a little table. A Victorian “pretty”. Anyone else ever heard of this term?
Ricki in PA
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 00:18:05 -0400 (EDT) | From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
Hi all – this may sound like a “cranky question” but I need a reference to some book or paper that addresses this quilting issue. We have had posts about Mormon quilts, Quaker quilts, Amish, etc. What does religion have to do with quilting ? Would a non-Amish person living in an Amish area produce a quilt completely different than her Amish neighbor ? I know the early Amish quilts used fabrics and colors consistent with their clothing but didn’t everyone ? That is often no longer the case, yet prices are higher for quilts that are Amish-made. What does a Methodist or Presbyterian quilt look like ? African-American quilts can often contain symbols that have religious overtones but when I went through the Mormon museum in Salt Lake City, I saw fabulous textiles but didn’t see anything that would distinguish them as “Mormon Texiles”. OK, you get the drift. Joan
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:05:12 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
I was so pleased to see your post and question regarding the AMISH or any religious quilting..and I’ll tell you what it is..SNOBBISH MYSTIQUE..that is all it is..I’ll follow your post and if I see a thread going on it,will share a story..Jane net.com Subject: Re: QHL: Religion Message-ID: <970512082557_574820634 [at] emout10 [dot] mail [dot] aol [dot] com>
Morning!! I should probably spend a little time & think this through….but have to leave for work (7:30 am!) so here is my .02 worth. I think these quilts are more of a “cultural” than a “religious” origination….although in groups like the Amish, their religion is really what defines their culture. From what I have learned, the Amish didn’t quilt when they came to the US to escape religious persecution in Europe. They learned from their “English” (non-Amish) neighbors. Although the pieced designs were quite different, you find the stars, tulips, etc. of the “Pennsylvania Dutch” (which should have been “Deutsch” meaning Germans) quilted onto the surface of the Amish quilts. The colorful & time consuming applique of these people’s quilts didn’t fit with the Amish culture, so the women adapted the quilting motifs, so they could have the designs they love (these too have religious symbolism) on their quilts, only in the quilting.
The Amish quilts made in the Midwest were quite different from those made in Pennsylvania….as the Amish moved west to find more land, they were back to a “subsistence” level- no money for large pieces of fabric for Center Diamonds or Bars quilts. They also had to rely more on their non-Amish neighbors, until some time passed and their communities built up. So, the women picked up quilt patterns in “block” styles, using smaller pieces. Quilts tended to be smaller, and the borders narrower. These generalizations apply to pre-1940 Amish “dark quilts”- what everyone calls an “Amish” quilt….although at the same time, the Amish made blue & white cotton quilts for summer, which you couldn’t tell from a non-Amish blue & white quilt!! Another cultural group to consider, the Cuna people of the San Blas Islands. Their Molas are very unique….again, a people, a culture, also a religion. But, my guess is that in some ways religion might influence the quilter….but religion is not what defines the quilt/quilter. There are many other groups which could be cited: Hmong and Hawaiian quilts/quilters, for instance. Will be interested to see what the rest of you think on this subject. I have now made it though 1 month on the new job….really like it! Also, Prom, now graduation coming up May 18th & then the Open House May 25th. Then on Memorial Day, I get to collapse, right?? 🙂 Karan from Iowa, sunny but chilly this morning!!
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:24:59 -0400 (EDT) | From: CToczek [at] aol [dot] com
Hi everyone!
In reference to Ricki’s note about the quilted, Victorian ‘pretty,’ I have heard that term used all my life (Southern United States) in regard to any and all knickknacks around my grandmother’s house and later my parent’s home. I haven’t any input on the history of the term, only the personal testimonial to its eventual, widespread use. It must have stuck with me, because I use it, too. My little boys have their toys and I have ‘Mommy’s prettys’! :]
Carla, in West Texas where the North Wind doeth blow!
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 08:44:04 -0500 | From: “J. S. Lyle” <jslyle [at] bcl [dot] net>
Diane McGuire wrote: > > Hi, all. Ricki Maietta’s narrative about how she approached the repair > of a > large tear on a quilt border inspired me to share an idea that came to > me in the middle of the night last night. > > I am working on restoration of a 1880ties quilt. The squares are hand > pieced triangular baskets with half circle handles turned under and > machine appliqu�d. It was found in a barn and had been the happy home > for mice for quite some time. It was tied with heavy tan thread. Last > summer my friend Carol and I took it outside and took it apart. The > batting was lumpy and filthy. I saved a small piece in a plastic bag > just for ID purposes. Now I am taking the squares apart. I plan to > wash them and use the best of the squares and the best of the lattice > (maybe half the present width depending on what I have left of the > original) and reconfigure it into a new quilt. > > I was planning to baste the individual squares on cotton batiste > before I washed them and leaving it on the squares as reinforcement > when I sewed them together again.
> > Last night I got another idea to try instead: make a washing slipcover > (two layers on top and two on bottom) out of nylon net to support the > fragile fabric while I gently washed the individual squares. I thought > this would allow for better soap and water penetration because they > really need cleaning. > > Clear ivory liquid dish detergent was recommended to me. I have heard > much about Orvis. Has anyone used the Ivory? > > Anyone have any other ideas about washing the squares? > > Should I try to add a layer of batiste inside to strentghen the > original? I thought I might machine quilt lightly, but I am afraid > the original fabric by itself is too fragile. > > Thanks for considering my questions. > > Diane in Massachusetts where my visiting Carolina wren sang to me > again yesterday for the first time this year.
Diane – ORVUS was develpoed by Procter & Gamble for the show horse business. They had been wshing their horses in detergent and it dried out the skin of the horses. These people went to P & G and asked for a new “soap” since Ivory (99.44 100’s % pure?) was not doing the trick either. P & G went back to the drawing boards and came up with ORVUS for them. The fabric people quickly came up with the same idea and the whole thing has come around to quilts & washing.
I would suggest that ORVUS is more gentle on fabrics than Ivory is, based on the foregoing. Under any conditions, rinse, rinse, rinse the finished cloth before you quit. All soaps are more difficult to get out of fabric than are detergents.
Good luck with your project. It sounds interesting.
When I have time, I’ll give you my alternative to washing quilts vacuuming them since most of the dirt in fabric is dust anyway.
Jean Lyle – in Illinois
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT) | From: Qltldy10 [at] aol [dot] com
This is an intruiging question for me— as my Grandmother’s family was from Holland, they ended up in western Pa, and they called themselves “Pennsylvania Dutch”! The only quilt I own from her is her baby quilt made by her mother in1904; as the last of thirteen children, you can guess it was made from scraps. It is mostly the browns of that era, although all of the center blocks are black and red check (a couple of different prints/wovens). Interestingly, one of the center blocks is pieced in red, white and blue strips, very small- my GreatGrandmother was very proud to be an American in America, the story goes that she crocheted a huge American flag and sent it to the White House after every new President was elected; that’s one of the ways I know she made this quilt.
Say! With thirteen children, it stands to reason that there may be more quilts out in Pa with little red white and blue blocks in them– has anybody seen one? Anyway, I grew up thinking that the Pa Dutch were all from Holland, because she talked as if they were- could it be that the historians are generalizing a little too much? Seems to me that at least one of the Pa Dutch families were Dutch! Beth in Maine
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:43:41 -0400 | From: Meg Manderson <megm [at] MIT [dot] EDU>
Hi folks!
I just had to comment on the restoration posts that we’ve had lately. Wow, am I in awe of your work! My one attempt at “restoration” has consisted of repairing my son’s quilt, one of my first full sized projects some 5-6 years ago. It’s been loved to death, as intended. The top needed some repair – little 3 corner tears from heaven only knows what abuse- but the back completely disintegrated! So I took it apart and fixed the tears (nice to know that my approach was right even if no where near as invisible as the experts! 🙂 ) and now it is awaiting requilting. All of that has given me *enormous* respect for those of you who do this sort of thing for real!
While I am unlurking for a moment, I am about to start getting serious about writing my thesis. The topic is Quilts As Communication, focusing on deliberate, actual communication as opposed to the self-expression that has been written about by several people from Women’s Studies lately. I’m interested in album quilts, mourning quilts, political quilts, social activism – like the AIDS NAMES project and the various quilts for survivors of disease and disaster. Anyone with suggestions, stories, examples etc. who would be willing to contribute would be very much appreciated. If this thing comes off, I’d like to see if it would be publishable. As someone interested in what I’ve seen referred to here as the social history of quilting, I am always looking for information and books. One of the problems I’m having with the thesis is that since this is a long term love, there is no end to the research!
Thanks in advance for any help you can give,
Meg megm [at] mit [dot] edu
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:01:51 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
I do not relate the Amish with the Pa. Dutch..I think they differ..I was under the impression the Amish came originally from Switzerland,made another migration before settling in America, and the PA Dutch were of Dutch descent. Jane
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:39:27 -0500 | From: bgroelz@.net (Brenda Groelz)
Mary,
I wanted to tell you that I’m hearing rave reviews in my area about your new book.
The Mormon Trail re-enactors just came through here last week and my Girl Scouts and I helped serve them supper at the Stuhr Museum of the Prairie Pioneer, where they spent a couple of days resting.
Your book was available in the museum gift shop, as well as in our local quilt shop. One lady told me that her husband is a High School History teacher. When he read your book, he told her that he learned more about the trail and the Mormons than he ever had in college, and he was looking forward to sharing that information with his students.
I have Treasures in the Trunk and have greatly enjoyed it. Just haven’t picked up your new one yet! (But, I will!)
Would you please send me your information packet about your lectures (and workshops, if you teach). I’d like to pass it along to my local quilt guilds. Mail it to Brenda Groelz, 308 W US HWY 34, Phillips, NE 68865-2504.\
Thanks!
Brenda Groelz Gray Wind Publishing Brenda Groelz Designs Foundation Patterns Phillips, Nebraska
———-
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:20:49 -0400 (EDT) | From: KirkColl [at] aol [dot] com
We carry the Mary Cross’s new book on Quilt and Women of the Mormon Migrations. All our books are on sale for 10% off this month.
Wanted to share a sweet story about the book and a new Mormon quilter. Two young Mormon missionaries came to the shop about two months ago on a Saturday morning. After we talked an explained that we were involved in our own churches already, they asked if there was anything they could do to help before they left. It was out morning to move all the furniture and rearrange the office area at the back of the shop, and we said “Yes!”. Not only did they move all the desks and filing cabinets, they came back the next week and moved all the storage shelves.
One, “Elder Gibson”, then invented a catch basket for our fax machine. He plans to study engineering in college. Well, over the next two months he came back several more times, with new partners to keep helping with the storage area. We’d buy lunch and they put up shelves. Elder Gibson started getting fascinated with quilting and decided to make a quilt to commemorate his mission.
We provided some fabric and instructions, and helped with photo transfers of the mission logo and words to a favorite hymn and within a couple of weeks he came in with his finished quilt — a small wall hanging. As a thank you fo all his work, we gave him a copy of Mary’s book just as he was being transferred (also the wagon train was leaving Omaha about the same time). He was really excited to find family names in the book and is now on a genealogical search for connections with those early quilters.
Maybe someday Mary will have to write another book on Mormen men who quilt!
By the way, Mary. Come by the shop when you’re in town.
Nancy Kirk The Kirk Collection Antique Fabrics & Antique Quilts High Quality Reproduction Fabrics Conservation & Restoration Supplies 1513 Military Avenue Omaha, NE 68111 1-800-398-2542 (U.S. and Canada) (402) 551-0386 Email: KirkColl [at] aol [dot] com FAX (402) 551-0971 Web site: http://www.auntie.com/kirk
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:56:34 -0400 (EDT) | From: EppiesMom [at] aol [dot] com
In a message dated 5/12/97 7:43:45 AM, Meg wrote:
<<The topic is Quilts As Communication, focusing on deliberate, actual communication as opposed to the self-expression that has been written about by several people from Women’s Studies lately. I’m interested in album quilts, mourning quilts, political quilts, social activism – like the AIDS NAMES project and the various quilts for survivors of disease and disaster. Anyone with suggestions, stories, examples etc. who would be willing to contribute would be very much appreciated. >>
Meg,
If you are interested in contemporary quilts, I may have an example for you. Last June I made a small double wedding ring for my daughter’s marriage. In the center of each ring I quilted a symbol for my blessings for her marriage. On the label I drew a miniature of the quilt and named the symbols: such as Faith (a rose window), Peace, Love, Hope (butterfly) etc. Some of the symbols were obvious such as the feathered heart, Love, and some were abstract designs that “felt” to me like the blessing. I had considered keeping the meanings from them until their first anniversary–then confirming their guesses–not as a cute trick, but as a way to cause them to ponder the meanings and wonder “what Mom most wishes for us”. The quilt was enthusiastically received even though I had somehow managed to raise a daughter who doesn’t “like quilts.”
Janice Avila EppiesMom [at] aol [dot] com
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:58:54 +0000 | From: “The Garretts” <bgarrett [at] fast [dot] net>
The following is some information about the PA Germans or PA Dutch as they are sometimes called.
The people referred to by these names are the immigrants and their descendants who came before 1810, and they came from a peasant culture. The German boundaries were much larger before 1848 than they are now, and the area was made up of principalities. To give you an idea of how large the area was, the Moravians who settled in Lititz, PA and Bethlehem, PA and the Schwenkfelders (a religious denomination) were from Poland of today, but were German. The Schwenkfelder Churches are found in Montgomery County and Lititz is in Lancaster County.
The Amish were Swiss, and German Catholics settled in the Bally, PA and Hanover, PA areas. Bally is in Berks County and Hanover in Adams County. Other religious groups of Germans include the Mennonite, Brethren, Lutheran, Reformed, and founders of the Ephrata Cloisters. The Reformed Church is now the UCC – United Church of Christ. The Mennonite and Brethren Churches in this area are still very much considered PA German Churches.
The word German in German is Deutsch, so early on when people used German in speech, it sounded like they were saying Dutch – slightly different sounding, but similar enough that it could become confusing. Therefore the PA Germans and the PA Dutch are one and the same.
Historically speaking there are the Plain Dutch and the Gay Dutch — the last classification has now become Non-Plain Dutch. The Plain groups include the Amish and Conservative Mennonite and Brethren Churches and their members. The Non-Plain Group blended into the community more in their appearance and dress, and are the group responsibile for the Hex Signs popular in decorating. The Amish aren’t responsible for Hex Signs, even though popular tourism likes to connect the two.
Quilt historian Nancy Roan says that the more “scholarly” – her quotation marks – use PA German in their writing, but most of us “regular” people us Pa Dutch to refer to this group of people of German heritage. In fact, when we are documenting quilts she will say “That quilt just shouts PD” when we see a very obviously PA Dutch quilt. These quilts are fairly easy to spot once you know the color combinations to look for.
Also, it is true the Germans brought a coverlet weaving tradition to the US and learned to quilt from their neighbors who brought a long quilting tradition with them. But once they learned, they developed their own distinctive colors, styles and patterns for quiltmaking.
If anyone has more information, please share with the group. Thanks.
Barb in Southeastern PA <bgarrett [at] fast [dot] net>
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:37:45, -0500 | From: LVQG24A [at] prodigy [dot] com ( ELIZABETH K DONALDSON)
Nancy,
Some of the quilts from the book are in the museum’s collection. E- mail me privately when you get closer to your Michigan visit and we can “fine tune” your visit. In about two hours time, you can see about 10 quilts unrolled and have time to cruise the collection cabinets where the quilts are rolled in see through, breathable vinyl, tops out. It’s too much fun. I look forward to meeting you.
Beth in Lansing
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:29:20 -0700 | From: Sharon Harleman Tandy <harleman [at] micron [dot] net>
Dear Barb, I’ve always wondered about Pa. Dutch vs. Ps. German. My dad’s people were from that area; see “harleman” in my e-name. I was always told they were Pa. Dutch, then in college in the 80s I was told that meant German. My dad said they came from Germany. There is a street in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, called Haarlemstrasse and a town about ten miles away called Haarlem, another on the ocean [two miles farther away] called Haarlemermer (sp? Haarlem-on-the-“sea”?). Last summer my son spent two weeks in Amsterdam and brought me two books on the history of Haarlem. I’d sure like to know where to write and who to talk to about the origins of my family name. Sorry to take up QHL time on this. Sharon in Boise.
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:11:10 -0400 | From: Julia Stitely <stitely [at] mindspring [dot] com>
Many of the German and Swiss families who came to Pennsylvania were, in fact, living in the Netherlands at the time they emigrated. The Amish-Mennonite-Brethren groups spent many years moving around Europe in search of religious freedom. It can be hard to sort out exactly where one’s family came from because of the changing borders in the Germany-Switzerland area. I am of Brethren descent and still trying to determine whether we are German or Swiss.
Julia in Maryland
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:14:08 -0400 (EDT) | From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
Correspondence from Mary Cross to Joan Stevens, in response to this question. Thought there might be people on the Listserv who would be interested. Joan
At 12:18 AM 5/12/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all – this may sound like a “cranky question” but I need a reference to >some book or paper that addresses this quilting issue. We have had posts >about Mormon quilts, Quaker quilts, Amish, etc. What does religion have to >do with quilting ? Would a non-Amish person living in an Amish area produce >a quilt completely different than her Amish neighbor ? I know the early >Amish quilts used fabrics and colors consistent with their clothing but >didn’t everyone ? That is often no longer the case, yet prices are higher >for quilts that are Amish-made. What does a Methodist or Presbyterian quilt >look like ?
African-American quilts can often contain symbols that have >religious overtones but when I went through the Mormon museum in Salt Lake >City, I saw fabulous textiles but didn’t see anything that would distinguish >them as “Mormon Texiles”. OK, you get the drift. Joan >
Responding: Until you read the book, you have no idea what I am referring to in the title: Quilts and Women of the Mormon Migrations: Treasures of Transition. The word Mormon refers to the migrations of the people who chose to join the LDS Church and follow the leaders to Zion in the Intermountain West. Theirs was more than a religion, it was a lifestyle. I made the conscience decision to steer away from the religion because I am not LDS, I did not know enough about the Church nor would I allow anyone to write about the Church. I chose instead to do the research and cite my sources very carefully, choosing the best known and recognized within the field.
This has paid off significantly with the response the book is getting from within the Church hierarchy and those special people and institutions who allowed me access to their resources. Interestingly, of the 65 plus quilts, there are only two that have symbols and quotes connected to the Church. One being the Friendship Quilt for Margaret Smoot and the other a Crazy Quilt with only a beehive. On the other hand, the textiles within Utah are incredible becasue they had their own cotton, woolen, and silk industries. The woolens were handwoven at home, the cottons and woolens were produced in the textile mills, the silk industry was statewide, but short-lived and no silk has actually been authenticated as Utah produced silk, although I saw reported examples and mention them in the book.
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:17:43 -0400 (EDT) | From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
My reply to Mary Cross: Joan Stevens, AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
Dear Mary, I would very much like to buy a copy of your book, preferably from you, but Kris could probably send it to me if that is a problem for you. I did not mean to imply that research, of the type you have completed, is not invaluable information and a wonderful read, as everyone has reported. I am a long-time collector, dealer and more-recently, an avid historian.
My quarrel is with the problem created when quilts are labeled by religious sect and an increased monetary value is implied because of this. The truest monetary value is, of course, dictated by how much a person loves, and wants to live with, a specific quilt. However, the investment value of a quilt is determined by a multitude of factors, which can include it’s maker being a member of a particular religious sect, but that probably should be way down on the importance list unless the quilter was a noted historical member of that sect.
An experienced quilt purchaser usually understands the complexity of determining investment value but the beginner often is mislead by the religious label. I have had several people bring me quilts that they paid a great deal of money for because they assumed it was a good investment based on the maker’s religion.
Most of the time, this has not been the case and it is a sad commentary on the seller’s ethics (or possibly just an innocent seller’s mistake, as many dealers have bought into this misunderstanding, as well). I would like to forward your reply to me – on to the “the list”, as it is important and interesting information – especially to those who have read, or will read, your book. Thanks for the reply and I’m sorry if you were upset by the tone of my question – I’m not a very subtle person. Joan
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 06:03:59 +0000 | From: Susan in Sunny Phoenix, Arizona, USA
>From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com >Subject: QHL: Religion
>this may sound like a “cranky question” but I need a reference to >some book or paper that addresses this quilting issue. We have >had posts about Mormon quilts, Quaker quilts, Amish, etc. What >does religion have to do with quilting ?
>From: SadieRose [at] aol [dot] com >Subject: Re: QHL: Religion
>so here is my .02 worth. >I think these quilts are more of a “cultural” than a >”religious” origination…
Hello, Quilt historians,
I can’t speak about Quaker or Amish quilts, but I know a bit about LDS quilts. As SadieRose indicates, it is a cultural thing. LDS woman, pioneers, came from countries all over Europe, as well as from the United States. Early pioneers were converts, often a congregation en masse, and women brought their patterns from all walks of life and all backgrounds, and shared them with one another. Thus, you are not likely to find “Mormon” patterns, distinct from other patterns.
What makes them unique is what makes any pioneer work unique. The fact that they were made and survived at all is a large part of it. The fabrics were more likely to be homespun than store bought. Early LDS settlers in southern Utah, the St. George area, had quite a silk industry going for a number of years, and raised cotton – still do, for that matter.
LDS families have a tradition of passing things down, and a reverence for the past and geneaology. Many of my friends still have today the journals written by their pioneer ancestors. For this reason, the stories and the quilts are more accessible than some pioneer crafts and histories.
In addition to the culture, I think there are some religious beliefs, as well as some political opinions, which were expressed in quilts – and still are.
Susan in Sunny Phoenix, Arizona, USA
______ __/ | | \__ / | | \ Yesterday brought the beginning, \_/| / \ |\_/ tomorrow brings the end, but, | @ @ | somewhere in the middle, \ / we’ve become the best of friends. | ^^ | \ __ /
–Unknown \/
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:15:22 -0400 (EDT) | From: Quilting Heritage ListServ <qrs [at] mail [dot] albany [dot] net>
I have been reading with interest the discussion of “religious” quilts. Let’s all keep in mind that sex, politics, religion and quilting chat groups are all sensitive topics. We NEED to talk about these things – that’s the whole basis for this discussion group! – but we also need not to take offense at the way something was phrased. When you speak to a person you can see their facial expressions and hear the inflections they put into a sentance. When you read their words, you can’t. So let’s keep that in mind when reading and writing posts.
One of the things I have wanted to post about has been a lecture I attended while in Maryland, given by Barbara Brown. She designed “The Life Before” quilt for How to Make an American Quilt and had a number of interesting ideas concerning African American quilts. I’ll put together a post and send it tonight. It will also be a controversial post!
Kris
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:47:07 -0400 (EDT) | From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
Thanks for your input Susan. I agree with you, and when good historic documentation is available, it enhances the desirability and value of a quilt a great deal. Especially when the documentation is part of a pioneer story (decribes the making of the quilt in the context of daily life and the struggles of sewing, fighting off Indians, religious persecution, dust storms, etc. all at the same time.) I find that to be the most exciting part of collecting quilts – preserving the quilts with their individual history. Unfortunately, most people do not read lists like this one, so I guess I’m really appealing to the others that sell quilts, to be more honest and explain this to their customers instead of just taking the money to the bank. A quilt created in 1965 from reproduction fabrics, in the style and colors of a particular religious sect, may be lovely ( and the person may even still practice that same religion) but the price should be determined by factors like workmanship, design, etc. as in any other quilt. I think we’re talking apples and oranges here, I am simply addressing the question of ethics in the world of quilt sales. Joan
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:18:01 -0700 | From: deb roby <robyda [at] modex [dot] com>
THis message is being sent to QN and QHL; sorry for any repeats.
Memorial Day weekend the Western Reserve Historical Society is holding their first QUILT EXPO at Hale Farm and Village. Hale is a restored historic village with many buildings moved to the property to exhibit the lifestyle of the 1800s.
Quilts will be displayed in all of the buildings. The quilts will be placed on beds, and hung on the walls, with cording separating invidividuals from the quilts. There will (hopefully) be individuals demonstrating various techniques throughout the 3 days.
Of special interest are a couple of the speakers:
On Saturday, Ricky Clark will be giving a slide presentation on
OHIO QUILTS ay 1:30. Ricky is one of the people who
wrote the book about the Ohio quilt traditions.
On Sunday, Virginia Gunn will be speaking on WOMEN, QUILTS AND
THE COLONIAL REVIVAL at 2 pm. Virginia does a lot of work
with the Kent State textile program, explaining restoration
and conservation techniques.
Hale Farm is located between Cleveland and Akron in the town of Bath. The show will be running Saturday through Monday. Sorry, I can’t find the phone number to call for more information. If you are really intersted, E-mail me and I will try harder to find it and let those people know.
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:38:44 EDT | From: LIZ SWARTZ <swartze [at] clpgh [dot] org>
Thank you for all your suggestions for my book club. I’ll let you know what we decide on.
I’ll post information on the Pittsburgh quilt exhibit once I pry the information out of the History Center. I do know that it runs from June 27 – November 30 and the Center is open every day from 10-5. The exhibit is called “Quilts: Patterns of Our Past.”
My server was down for a couple of days so I missed the digest with my original post. Did anyone have the exact quote and source I was asking for? You can e-mail me privately if this is getting too tiresome!
Thanks,
Liz
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:12:00 -0400 (EDT) | From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
I am requesting information from restorers and quilters who are “for hire”. I would like your names, addresses, phone numbers and a general rundown of your pricing structure and specialty, if you have one. I am not “price shopping” necessarily. I personally have a number of historic things that need restoration. (Also tops to be quilted.) I also have mail order customers from different areas that have the same needs, and names of people wishing to enter the field that don’t know how to charge. I need to know if you hand or machine quilt, are willing to use cotton batting, can or will quilt in historic patterns and complexity, etc. You can e-mail me directly or send the info to: Joan Stevens, 218 Jefferson Road, St. Louis, Mo. 63119. Fax: 314-963-7492. If there is general interest in this information on the “list” and Kris does not construe it as advertising, we may be able to pass it along. Thanks. Joan
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:33:59 EDT | From: nikdeb [at] juno [dot] com (Nick R Hofland)
Do you ever have anything like this out in our neck of the woods? I live in Spokane, Washington; and we have a really nice quilting association; but I’m wondering if we can ever expect a symposium such as this one?
Deb H. in sunny, springy beautiful Spokane, Washington
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:16:04 -0400 (EDT) | From: Baglady111 [at] aol [dot] com
the Pgh quilt exhibit is my backyard so I’ll look forward to the info as well..jane
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:43:29 -0400 (EDT) | From: KareQuilt [at] aol [dot] com
Hello! When I download and save Vol #130, it saves it as “Simple Text.” Then when I go to open it, it tells me it’s too big too open as Simple Text. Help. I’m to ignorant to know what to do. How can I open your Vol 130?
Thanks for the help. Karen alexander/KareQuilt [at] aol [dot] com
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:57:38 -0500 | From: LAURA SYLER <texas_quilt.co [at] airmail [dot] net>
AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com wrote: > > I am requesting information from restorers and quilters who are “for hire”. > I would like your names, addresses, phone numbers and a general rundown of > your pricing structure and specialty, if you have one. I am not “price > shopping” necessarily. I personally have a number of historic things that > need restoration. (Also tops to be quilted.) I also have mail order > customers from different areas that have the same needs, and names of people > wishing to enter the field that don’t know how to charge. I need to know if > you hand or machine quilt, are willing to use cotton batting, can or will > quilt in historic patterns and complexity, etc. You can e-mail me directly > or send the info to: Joan Stevens, 218 Jefferson Road, St. Louis, Mo. > 63119. Fax: 314-963-7492. If there is general interest in this information > on the “list” and Kris does not construe it as advertising, we may be able to > pass it along. Thanks. Joan
Joan: This is basically the same information that I have already requested for my research project steming from the AQS appraisal program. I have not received very many responses, mainly people who would like me to share the completed info.We’ve just about decided that the people doing all the hard work don’t have time to be on the net ( and possible not the finances to afford a computer.) If you get any responses, could you please forward the info to me, I’ll trade info with you also. Laura
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:35:51 -0400 (EDT) | From: AMDOODAH [at] aol [dot] com
P.S. I’m already hearing that others would like the “for hire” info too. I have a mail order textile business and will include a plea for this info from my mailing list as well – 1000 quilters at this point. I’ll also call the churches and follow up on some other ideas as well. We could all call our local quilds, post requests at all the quilt shows we attend, etc. Determining quality of workmanship would be an issue but we can address that along the way. It would be great to develop a nation-wide list that can go on our “page”. (Kris says she’ll help with this – thanks Kris) Most of the dealers I know, “guard” this info so their sources won’t become over-worked. I can relate to this completely but don’t think it would be a problem if we can develop a big resource list. There are probably lots of qualified quilters out there that would be happy to earn a little extra money if they knew how much they are needed. Joan
