August 14, 2004
These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.
Primary topics of this QHL Digest:
- Jane Stickle Replica Quilt eBay Controversy — Members discuss a relisted eBay auction for a controversial Jane Stickle replica quilt and the copyright questions around it.
- Microwaving Quilts for Insects — Following the freezer discussion, a member raises microwaving as an alternate (and riskier) insect-killing method.
- Truth and Scholarly Discourse, Continued — The list’s running debate over historical truth and civil discourse continues, with members praising a more temperate tone.
- Quilters Hall of Fame Visitor Information — A member shares the operating hours for the Quilters Hall of Fame in Marion, Indiana.
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:58:09 -0400 | From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Hi!
We had the fun and good fortune of visiting a New Hampshire museum which is dedicated to WWII memorabilia and artifacts. I was pleasantly surprised at the number of textiles displayed, the wonderful “room” set-ups that reflect the period, and the terrific special display of quilts. To read more about the museum, please click here:
http://www.quiltersmuse.com/wright%20museum.htm
Pat
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 00:18:41 -0500 | From: “Jocelyn Martin” <jocelynm@>
How would this apply to the DJ eBay case, in your opinion (i.e., if the eBay seller had sold all her originals of software/pattern/books related to the quilt along with the quilt and thereby kept no copies in her posession)?
Tracy, In my opinion, I’ve pretty much exhausted my understanding of this issue, and I’ll wade out of this quagmire and let someone who’s done more scholarly study of the issue answer these questions. Sorry. 🙂
From: “Jocelyn Martin” <jocelynm@>
>>>>There are parts of the book I love! Those parts have to do with African symbols and traditions.
Alas, that was part of the book I felt was most in need of additional scholarship. I can accept that some tribes in Africa used certain symbols- but we don’t know that members of those tribes had anything to do with the quilts in question. The symbols could have been independently derived by members of other tribes. To say that a symbol meant one thing in one tribe, therefore it would mean the same thing when it appears in a quilt, is a HUGE jump. For example, they talked about blue being a powerful sky color for one tribe. It would be interesting to consider if ANY tribe of any race, anywhere in the world, does NOT associate the color blue with the sky, or the sky with power! Can we be sure that even if blue has a ‘power’ connection, it’s because of African beliefs, as opposed to Native American beliefs about the sky being the realm of powerful spirits, or white Catholic slaveowners who depicted the Virgin Mary as dressed in blue? It’s even more likely that Africans in America were influenced by other peoples in America, than that they retained a pure memory of how their own tribe used symbols and colors, and only used traditional methods. Certainly we see that Africans in Africa both adhere to traditions AND adapt new stimuli into their traditional crafts. As do people all over the world. Innovation is MUCH more likely than rigid adherence to traditions. We also don’t know how much access the Africans had to the materials they needed to make the designs they wanted to make. Quilts might be blue, not because there was any sky connection or intent to invoke power, but because the maker worked on an indigo plantation, and could scavenge dyestuffs. Or perhaps, it could be because a man who worked on an indigo plantation gave a gift of dyestuffs or dyed fabric to a woman he was courting on another plantation. Too many might bes, too little effort to nail down which ones were more than ‘could it be?’
From: Anne Copeland <anneappraiser1@>
Is anyone on the list interested in pretinted items because I have a number of good ones and I am thinking of selling them. If you are interested you can contact me off line and I can describe them for you. I live in a very small space and am having trouble storing my textiles in a way that I feel will be beneficial to them over time, so I need to start getting rid of some of them. I also have some very funky scissor, thread and needle holders, probably from the 30s and one possibly from the 50s. Peace and blessings, Annie
From: Anne Copeland <anneappraiser1@>
Pat, I am so touched by your gentle and kind writing, and if anyone would ever have the power to change my opinions about anything, it would definitely be you. That is a very wise post, and I agree with everything you have to say.
I was just thinking about how really hard Bev Dunivent and I worked to make our article and then book on the history of kit quilts accurate in every sense of the word, and yet today, when Bev and I have gone over parts of the book together, we have discovered that what was truth then is now no longer true because new evidence has come to light. So this aspect always makes me aware how things change and it seems like truth should be something that should stay put, but it doesn’t always do that. It seems like a constantly moving target, The same thing happened with the knowledge about the Baltimore Album quilts and one of the great talks I heard at the American Quilt Study Group in 1994 when we presented our paper there was that the original researchers were quilt historians, but later, when a multi-disciplined group came to examine the quilts they looked at totally different aspects that helped them uncover new evidence about the quilts. And in a brief span of time, the history was rewritten. That has happened time and time again with quilt history.
I guess if I were questioning someone’s intentions about what they were putting down on paper though, be they famous or not, I would want to ask them directly. And I guess even without asking the authors directly, I could still find out from the readership why they thought the book was so popular or why they liked it themselves.
I appreciate you too, Pat, because while you have your own ideas about what is valid and what is not, you are willing to try to understand all sides of the issues. You are a wonderful mentor and role model.
And I too am tired of this discussion, because I don’t think it will ever resolve anything. Perhaps as quilt historians sometimes we are seeing things from a very narrow window that doesn’t allow for possibilities. It’s good to be accurate when that is your intention, but it is also good to look at all sides of an issue before making final judgments. Being accurate also involves knowing what someone else’s intention is. If I am writing a fairy tale or a contemporary myth, I would not expect people to be looking at how accurate my facts are. I would expect them to enjoy what they were reading and take it for what it was. Lots of really good historical novels are not entirely accurate, but you have to admit they are quite entertaining and sometimes thought provoking too. Peace and blessings, Annie
From: “Newbie Richardson” <pastcrafts@>
Dear List, Adding to the discussion about killing insects, microwaving also is ok – for small pieces, obviously. I doubt that this is useful for quilts! There have been studies done – most specifically on Civil War era wools. Just as an egg bursts if you do not pierce it, so does the larvae. I vacuum after treatment! Microwaving cooks by causing the molecules to rub against each other, thus providing heat from with in. It does require some moisture to work best, so I am always careful to add a small cup of water in the oven when I use this technique on any wools. Most of the applications are for ethnic weavings where critters might be lurking. Personally I like freezing – I don’t have to be so meticulous about how clean the appliance is. The important point is not to bring anything into contact with the rest of your collection ( or home) until you are CERTAIN there are no critters. An infestation of anything is no fun at all. Newbie
From: “Linda Heminway” <ibquiltn@>
Joan asked: One thing which I keep forgetting to ask this group is how you sanitize old quilts which you don’t want to clean or which can’t be immersed for various reasons. While top and backing be dusted, how do you know what lurks in the batting that might be germy or crawling??? Are there treatments to sterilize a quilt overall, so to speak. I ask this because whenever I get antique and old bisque dolls with stuffed bodies whether sawdust/horsehair or cotton or wool batting there’s not much I can do about what’s inside and keep my finger crossed I never find roaming insects in doll cabinets. So that got me to wondering about how quilters manage the batting problem.
I, too, would like to know if there is an answer to this! I do have an idea, but it’s only an idea and I don’t know if it’s safe….but probably is! First, let me tell you that when I went to Strawberry Banke Museum (a living history museum in Portsmouth NH) and toured Stoodley’s Tavern (web site below if anyone is interested) they were talking about straw stuffed “mattresses” that existed in the tavern for weary travelers to spend the night. These mattresses were nothing more than course fabric “pillows” suspended with roping in a wooden platform. The tour guide mentioned that when they did the restoration work when the tavern was being moved to it’s existing site, as part of the living museum, they actually found LIVE smallpox spores! Yikes! I guess they took apart and re-stuffed everything? Wonder what made them check for this stuff? At any rate, this living museum is wonderful, if you ever get a chance to visit. This tavern was where Paul Revere made one of his famous stops to say “The British are Coming!”. http://www.strawberybanke.org/museum/stoodleys/stoodleys.html
At any rate, with very old quilts and natural fiber battings, one might actually have to give thought to a potential problem, maybe not as awful as Smallpox, but certainly anything could exist! I have an idea, though, but it would a very large freezer! I have a 25 cubic foot chest freezer in my garage and having an asthmatic in the house, I discovered a way to kill dust mites. My asthmatic son is very allergic to them. I used to rotate his bed throw pillows and stuffed animals in and out of the freezer. I read that 24 hours in a freezer would kill dust mites. So, I was wondering if 24 hours in a freezer would do any harm to an old quilt if one was worrying about bacteria, pest infestations and the like. Certainly old dolls might be safe? I did put them inside plastic bags when I did this. I am not sure that some of the restoration experts on this digest would think that to be a good idea or not, just “tossing it out there”. I found no damage whatsoever to the stuffed animals, etc. that I froze. I also freeze used, old books, that I bring in to the house as old book bindings and the like can harbor worms, silverfish, etc. Better safe than sorry! Linda Heminway Plaistow NH
From: Gail Ingram <gingram@> Thanks, Pat, for such a temperate, clearly reasoned and focused response on this issue of “Truth.” And who can outdo Kathy Moore for succinctness!
With Kathy, I think the most recent responses to this matter were semantic and because of a confusion of terminology got us nowhere, advanced no knowledge.
In “Alice in Wonderland,” Humpty Dumpty uses the word “glory” in a most peculiar way. Alice tells him she doesn’t understand what he means by his use of the word.
“Of course you don’t—till I tell you,” Humpty Dumpty smiles. “I meant ‘that’s a nice knock-down argument for you!”
“But glory doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument,” Alice objects.
“When I use a word…it means just what I choose it to mean,” H.D. answers.
“The question is,” says Alice, “whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” replies H.D. “which is to be master—that’s all.”
In Humpty Dumpty’s world, one can never really discuss anything, for the meanings of words have no stability or precision. Unless people can proceed from commonly accepted and shared definitions, then conversation or communication is impossible.
The definition of “truth” to which recent posts seem to appeal is a “conformity to [temporal] reality or actuality”; “a fact that has been verified.” Such definitions seem applicable to a statement or an assertion. Such a definitions also seem to require objective proofs.
We should also distinguish between denotation (definition) and connotation (the associations words have). The fact that a word like “tree” might have different connotations,depending on the reader’s experience, does not meanit has various definitions, for it has only one. “Treeness” involves a set of common qualities, just as “mammalness” and “bookness” and “charity” have.
Thus, it is confusing and disturbing to encounter terms such as “your truth” and “my truth.” As the precise Ms. Moore observes, possibly the writer meant “belief.”
For truth IS. It exists independent of our perceptions. It is that which conforms to reality, which itself is not relative to our view of it. That nearly everyone on earth once believed it flat in no way alters the oblate sphreroidness of the earth.
Most knowledge is gained over time, a piece here and another piece there, with a number of erroroneous conclusions along the way. Yet, scholars can never discover reality unless they scrupulously follow the steps of good scholarship, which include the amassing of relevant, accurate, sufficient facts.
One of my most beloved quilt books is Rose Wilder Lane’s “American Needlework.” It, along with Kretsinger and Hall’s and Ikis’ books, sustained me for a decade or more, when there were available in print almost no other books on a subject that intrigued me. It led me to the Brooklyn Museum, thence to the Valentine Museum and other repositories of quilts which seemed to interest almost nobody my age. In that book Lane got it wrong about the origins of American quilting. She did not do sufficient research to locate the facts and deduce truth. And I, for one, believed her errors (What romantic 20-year-old could resist that soaring prose?), and I passed them along to others. I regret that.
I can easily infer Lane’s purposes in that book: to place American needlework among the cultural glories of our nation for a general audience of women readers. Her enthusiasm and her pride in women’s accomplishments in this area were infectious. And she put together a beautiful book I shall always cherish.
Nevertheless, for all its author’s good intentions, Lane’s book propagated error and helped delay the discovery of truth. Thank the Lord, the ensuing generation of quilt scholars did not treat her or Kretsinger and Hall’s work as sacred, but set about asking questions, amassing solidl data from varied resources, and making a start on uncovering reality.
So far as I know, nobody accused these new pioneers of heresy. They set and met the standards of scholarship which every scholar must meet to deserve the name. When one of them reached a questionable conclusion, another questioned that conclusion. When new facts surfaced, people revised their work. Such is the nature of learning and scholarship.
What most on this list have demanded is that the same high standards of proof be applied to all the UGRR quilt stories. I can imagine no good reason for making an exception.
In one sense, every one of us is a member of the Quilt Police (though I might be the only one who has an actual badge <g>). We police one another’s scholarship and reasoning, just as we come to one another’s aid with materials and advice. We do it not out of anger or ego or pridefulness, but out of a concern for the discovery and dissimination of truth. We learn from the corrections of our fellows. That’s what pulls us together.
And if we raise questions or indulge in anything less than the most careful reasoning, I think most of us expect and appreciate answers that might upend our own theories and direct our eyes to erroneous reasoning.
We might not–almost surely won’t–agree on all matters, but unless we set the conditions for a positive exchange of ideas—clear definitions, tough reasoning, respect for truth and our fellows—then none of us will learn anything. This remarkable group which Kris has so generously facilitated will not advance the cause of truth.
I am proud to be a member of this community and I regret it when the lines between the personal and the professional are blurred, as I believe they were in the last posting.
If we want a Quilt Police badge, we must earn it the old-fashioned way. And I assure you, if you have such a badge on your fridge, your kitchen will never have awkward silences when guests are around.
From the rolling hills of North Louisiana where an unseasonable chill required I put another quilt on the bed last night,
Gail Ingram
P.S. Are our members in the hurricane paths all right?
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Thanks to all with the freezer answers. Of course! It takes me back to the early 60s when my doctor recommended a sure cure for my son’s diaper rash [this was wintertime] and that was to hang washed diapers on clothes line overnight and let them freeze, just like grandmas used to do. That would sanitize them as well as make them super soft, and also help to whiten. It worked!! Lucky all you quilt collectors with freezers or access to one. Linda — dolls, other than all cloth, would not fare well in freezer due to other body components such as bisque, composition and leather for heads and limbs as some have learned the hard way. Not all dolls are created equal, especially those in the four-figure $$ and upwards category when risk is not an option 🙁 . Not knowing what type you had in plastic bags, it sounds as if you were lucky with your results. But if any part of body was bisque or compo, check periodically for stress lines which could lead to hairline cracks and loosening of compo finish. However, you have me wondering if some sort of thermo protective covering might be a solution.
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Gail said:
In one sense, every one of us is a member of the Quilt Police (though I might be the only one who has an actual badge <g>). We police one another’s scholarship and reasoning, just as we come to one another’s aid with materials and advice. We do it not out of anger or ego or pridefulness, but out of a concern for the discovery and dissimination of truth. We learn from the corrections of our fellows. That’s what pulls us together.
Dear Gail:
Thanks, Gail. What a wonderful definition of this group! Personally, I have never witnessed any posts that were written with a mean-spirited tone or one of “one-upmanship”. As far as I can see, we all share our knowledge in a caring manner. If that were to NOT be the case, I would be out of here, in a heartbeat.
“Truth”, a term that seems to be relative and based on an individual’s perception of it, is really static. The discovery of truth, or the modications of “truth”, as we mortals interpret it, can be fluid.
To question anything is to discover more. Listen to children and all of their refreshing questions. “Mommy, why is the sky blue?”, “Why do the cloud formations keep changing shapes?”, “Why do some look like animals?”. Kids can floor you with what they come up with as a result of their innate lack of experience in the world. Of course, as they get older, the questions get more difficult.
As adults, beyond the years of formal education perhaps, but still interested in learning, we still seek the truth. We still want to uncover mysteries. We still want to share the wisdom we have garnered from our own personal life experiences. As as in any learning or sharing situation, we will feel impeded if our ideas are not accepted by “the group”, composed of our peers.
Your message, Gail, is one of affirmation. Your message puts us all “on the same page” in terms of our common goal, to explore quilts and quiltmakers of the past, and to come to conclusions based on empirical evidence and true knowledge. This group, more than any other with which I have been associated, is cohesive in this effort.
If you are active on the list, I thank you for sharing. I have learned much from you and I hope you feel the same about information I share with you. If, on the other hand, you are a silent member and never make a peep, you are with us in spirit, and perhaps you are able to share new insights with your students, your peers, your children, or your associates, as a result of contact here.
My very best wishes to you, and a big Hug to Kris, our list mom, who had the foresight and kindness to start this list which celebrates our collective love of quilts and quilt history.
Pat www.quiltersmuse.com
From: Palampore@
I have posted this before but I thought that I should do it again in light of the recent hurricane damage. If you know how to locate folks who are needing to care for their family textiles that might have been damaged by rain, flood water, etc. please direct them to the article I wrote when Floyd hit NC. They can type in a search for : washing quilts, flood damaged quilts, or Historic Textiles Studio. They will all produce the site on Yahoo.com. I have tried to find an email for a relief group in Fla. to send it to but have had no luck. We are fine here in eastern NC (New Bern). We have debris in our yards and very soggy ground. However, a community near us did get the tornado that proved to fatal for 3. Very sad…… If a replacement for Orvus is found, please let me know. I hate the way it leaves a film on your hands. Off to sew, Lynn Lancaster Gorges, Historic Textiles Studio, New Bern, NC
From: “Teddy Pruett” <aprayzer@>
Joan wrote: <<<While top and backing be dusted, how do you know what lurks in the batting that might be germy or crawling???>>>
Ah, Joan and all – this is what I refer to as “quilt cooties”, a term I am certain really impresses my appraisal clients with my grasp of the English language. But I think it is descriptive and accurate.
Never forget that you can freeze things to death. In my former life as the owner of a small chain of supermarkets, I can tell you that the store freezers were often impressed into service to kill critters in dog food or corn meal – to stop the infestation before returniing the defective merchandise back to the supplier. (I just put that in there so yall wouldnt think we were selling icky stuff. We weren’t.) But the trick is to freeze it for a day or two, thaw it out, which causes larvae and eggs to hatch and activate, then re-freeze it for yet another day or two. Try it. You might like it.
You can also microwave stuff, but a quilt is pretty big to stuff into a microwave.
Teddy Pruett in FLorida, blessedly delivered from Charley, but many of my appraisal clients in Punta Gorda, which is one of my regular quilt shows, were not so fortunate. A pox on thee, Motha Natchure!!
From: Babette Moorleghen <happyquilterq@>
I went to a small town quilt show on Saturday and a number of beautiful antique quilts were displayed. There was a beautiful orange/turkey red quilt that I am going to have the opportunity to view a little closer as I have asked the owner for permission. There was also a quilt there I would like help from this list for some history, if possible. This particular quilt was one I had never seen before and was identified on the information card as made with Scottish Twilling. It was a type of applique. I took some pics and will try and post them (if someone would be kind enough to give me instruction) so you all can see the quilt. It was a family quilt and the exhibitor was the local parish priest! I did talk with a lady there who said she had seen one other quilt like it at an artist community in Southern Illinois (Rend Lake area) but could not find any other information on it. Has anyone ever heard of this type of work? At first glance I thought it was a type of embroidery but closer up it doesn’t appear to be that at all. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Hugs, Babette in Southern Illinois
From: Joan Kiplinger <jkip@>
Teddy — I shall never look at pet food in quite the same way again 😀 but thanx for yet another piece of freezer advice for textiles. I wonder if x-rays or laser bashing will be future remedies?? Maybe Newbie knows something about this. Re hurricane, you are lucky to be spared. I lived through Donna in 1960, Florida’s worst and most devastating until dethroned by Charley, according to news this morning. It is so ironic that a force so destructive has a spot of beauty. This is the 20-minute or so lull as the eye changes direction. Everyone rushes outside for a 7th-inning stretch so to speak. It is like being at the beginning of time; not a sound; the earth is perfectly quiet and it is as if you are viewing the world through rose-colored glasses. No one talks, just absorbs this spectacular hushed sight. Then the noise begins and the winds return…………
From: “Cheryl Wolf” <cwolf@>
If I recall correctly from my eBay selling days, in order to end an auction early with the intention of not selling the item, the seller must physically cancel all bids first. The reason there’s no mention of a retraction in the bidder’s profile is that the action was taken by the seller, not the bidder. (That was clear as mud, wasn’t it?)
pax- Cheryl
From: Judy Knorr <jknorr@>
Finally, a topic where I have some valid expertise! I am a Home Economist (in my non quilting life) and the author of a book called “Microwave Cooking”. I worked for several microwave oven manufacturers so have an extensive background in microwave ovens. Newbie is correct that microwave ovens will kill bugs (and full size quilts won’t fit, maybe wall hangings or other small textile pieces). Microwave ovens work by causing water molecules to bounce around and rub together. The magnetron tube is protected by adding water to the microwave oven when heating something with little moisture like fabric. Remember that the water may boil so place it in something large enough to contain it so it doesn’t boil over and thus wet the fabric. I recommend 1/4 to 1/3 cup of water in at least a one cup measure and if there is room put it in a 2 cup measure. Microwave for a total of 3 to 4 minutes in increments of 1 minute. If the item is fairly large take it out and rearrange it to make sure microwaves are penetrating evenly to all parts. To protect the fabric try to do it on a dry day when the fabric item is as dry as possible. If the humidity is high (and the fabric has absorbed water) the fabric will heat and it’s the bugs you want to get!! Judy
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Dear Cheryl:
Actually, if you were to go to the closed auction, and click on “0” bids, the retraction history stating who bid and why they retracted the bid, will come right up.
From: “Cheryl Wolf” <cwolf@>
Patricia,
My message was in response to someone questioning why the bid retraction was not reflected in the bidder’s user profile. I did view the closed auction, and it plainly states that the bid was cancelled (an action that the seller takes) as opposed to retracted (a buyer action).
Back to lurking- Cheryl
From: “Quilter Studio” <quilterstudio@>
Hi, I was lucky to be able to visit Washington D.C. last month. I only had time to visit the D.A.R. museum and the Museum of American History. They are still cleaning “The Star Spangled Banner”, the flag that inspired Francis Scott Key to write our national anthem. The conservators discovered the best way to clean the flag was using dry cosmetic sponges. They used 46,000 of them. They then analyzed the dirt that was removed and discovered that is was mostly comprised of carbon and oily residue. This makes sense because it was used in wartime. Also, in the “gowns gallery”, the exhibit that displays the first ladies dresses, there were 4 photographs taken with an electron microscope. They were taken of fibers used in one of the gowns that was submitted to direct sunlight for a number of years. The first photo showed the dirty fiber, the next dry-cleaned, the next cleaned with plain distilled water and finally plain water with a mild cleansing agent. The results were dramatic. Dry-cleaning did the most damage. The “soap” really didn’t have much value. The exhibit was very busy but I think I was the only one that noticed the photos. I have more info. in the August newsletter on my website if anyone is interested.
Also, I have used the vacuuming through a screen method and have had pretty good results. It helped the odor in a few cases too. I have also put the textile between 2 sheets and suspended it across the tops of all of my clotheslines for odor problems. Best to have a blustery day, as Pooh says.
I can also testify to “wet cleaning” results…with disastrous effects. Years ago (won’t say how many, just before I knew better) I tried to gently wash an old quilt. It was mostly unbleached muslin with a brown print in bear paw blocks. I used tepid water with the Mountain Mist quilt soap called Ensure. As I gently lowered the quilt into the bathtub the print literally disintegrated before my eyes. All the little brown specks floated to the top. There was nothing I could do but rinse and dry. Luckily the quilt was heavily echo quilted in the bear paw design. So I use the back as a type of “whole cloth” quilt and nobody is the wiser. I sometimes use the quilt as a small table cover and put a lamp and other collectables on it. Everyone loves the quilt. I just make sure they never look at the back (which is really the front).
Happy Quilting, Robin Quilter Studio www.quilterstudio.com —
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:16:52 +0000 | From: “jocelynm@” <jocelynm@>
On August 14, 2004, Anne Copeland wrote:
> What if their goal was to write an interesting book full of might have > been’s and could have been’s? I have seen nowhere in the book a place > where the authors come right out and assert that what they are saying is > total truth.
If they were protesting the acceptance of their book as truth, I would be willing to give them credit for that. But so long as they’re standing by let ting national museums tell the public that their book is true, I don’t see a big difference between their saying it, and the current state of affairs.
If they’d only meant it as a ‘maybe’, then they should speak up and SAY so, and protest it being included in curriculum as the God’s honest truth.
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
Jocelyn wrote:
If they’d only meant it (Hidden in Plain View) as a ‘maybe’, then they should speak up and SAY so, and protest it being included in cirriculum as the God’s honest truth.
* * * * * * * *
Well, Jocelyn. The old joke goes like this: “A professor without a pet theory is like a dog without fleas”.
In this particular case, the “story” told by Williams only served to key into a theory long held by one of the book’s authors, Raymond Dobard, Jr., Ph.D.
After having shared his ideas with the world, even though at first they were put forth as conjecture, there was/is a tremendous emotional investment at stake. Not only that, but what professional who earns his living by sharing information, would not want to admit to being wrong? Would you?
I applaud Dr. Dobard for having applied his knowledge, that of an art historian, to the facts he had on hand, when he wrote the book. As I stated previously, parts of the book are captivating.
If there were a side to take between those who want to know only established fact, and those who dream that there is or could be something more, I’d probably always align myself with the “dreamers”. The dreamers are the visionaries. As Gail points out, without those who were courageous enough to prove otherwise, we might all still believe that the world is flat and that we could be in danger of falling off the edges.
I’m sure that when the book was written, the authors could not have envisioned its popularity, nor could they, in their wildest dreams, have foreseen the negative response it would elicit from the quilt history community. While one or both (authors) may have made a quilt or two before writing the book, neither of them were seasoned, trained quilt historians, like many on this list.
So, we are taking a different point of view. Over time, we have given a complete account of all of our objections.
Like many of you, I wish that I could stop hearing that a quilter is going to “make an Underground Railroad” quilt (based on one of two different books which convey the concept that there was such a thing). It makes me feel sick at the stomach. Sometimes, where commercialism takes over, as has been the case in this instance, all powers of reasoning evaporate.
If we are going to celebrate African traditions and the African-American traditions in this country, as they relate to HISTORY, that would be a great thing to do! To keep celebrating a myth and calling it truth, when we know the difference, is inexcusable and revolting.
That getsus back to our previous discussion of “What is Truth”, “What is a Belief”, and “What is Reality”. How many of those ideas relate to our own subjective perceptions, ever subject to change, ever relative?
Now that you are bored silly, I’ll get off my soapbox.
Blessings to all,
Pat www.quiltersmuse.com
From: “J. G. Row” <JudyGrow@>
I think Tobin has pretty much retired from view, but Dobard is still on the lecture circuit, hyping up sales. Remember, he did a lecture at the National Spy Museum in DC this past year.
In the book there are a lot of “What if’s” and Could Have Happeneds” which could have become more “this is the way it happened” on the lecture circuit. I don’t know for sure because I wouldn’t want to enrich his pocket in any way but that is how it was the one time I heard him speak on PBS radio.
jkg
From: “J. G. Row” <JudyGrow@>
I have one 19th century quilt (third quarter) , purchased as part of a group at auction. The top is pieced of only two fabrics, a tan with brown print and a muslin. The backing is a heavier weight large check of teal and white. It has a thicker batting and was made for warmth, not show.
Of all the quilts I brought home on that day, that one really, really neededto be washed. I lived with it, and the smell, for well over a year beforethe urge could not be resisted anymore. I now have this wonderfully strongbacking fabric attached to absolute garbage. I’m thinking of taking photosof it, unstitiching it and preserving the backing fabric alone. This quiltwouldn’t have done me or anyone else any good the way it was. It couldn’tbe displayed, and had to be stored separated from other quilts and textiles.
Once I do the deed the “document” will be destroyed. But, let’s be truthfulhere. This wasn’t an important quilt. The document has been replicatedthousands of times across the country. There was no special skill in themaking, or story of the maker connected to it. It was a totally anonymousutilitarian quilt. I don’t feel guilty at all.
But I do feel better having told you all about it.
Judy, the Ringoe Kid judygrow@
From: “Pepper Cory” <pepcory@>
Hello friends-What a wealth of great info on cleaning textiles! I’ve made an extra file and stashed all your tips there. Thank you one and all. Skipping to another story (we call it “jumping another rabbit” around here-), in a former life, I was a dealer in antique quilts. About 25 years ago, when I was young and stupid, I bought a bonafide Amish deep indigo and white, Indiana c. 1920, Bear’s Paw quilt. Thought it was a steal and after getting out a suspicious yellow stain (about the size of a dinner plate front and center) I was going to make a killing. The quilt knew better. Down to the basement where a vintage Maytag wringer lived. Filled the Maytag with cold water, put in some Woolite, gently emmersed the quilt, then tripped upstairs to do whatever. Several hours later I came down to a tub of water black as ink and the strangley-hued quilt rose from the water like Moby Dick! Panic, panic! Maybe I could get some of the dye matter out of the water by wringing out the quilt? I started up the cycle of the washer and was promptly knocked to the cold stone floor. Of course I hadn’t replaced the lid or set the foot brakes. The washer danced madly all over the basement as I chased it around, the inky water splashing everywhere. Finally I pulled out the plug (bad move when electricity’s involved but I was desperate-) and heaved out a very heavy wet two-tone grey quilt. After draining the inky water and mopping up the basement, I did succeed in wringing out the quilt. Dried it and folded it and eventually sold it at a loss. Xenia’s maxim still holds: “When you think you want to wash an antique quilt, lay down until the urge passes.” Pepper on the NC coast
From: “jocelynm@” <jocelynm@>
> Not only that, but what professional who earns his living by sharing information, would not want to admit to being wrong? Would you?
Pat, I wouldn’t WANT to admit it, but neither would I continue to insist that I was correct in the face of contrary information. Nor would the desire to reap financial benefits motivate me to make a case for a position without adequate supporting documentation.
> I applaud Dr. Dobard for having applied his knowledge, that of an art historian, to the facts he had on hand, when he wrote the book.
The whole point of doctoral education is to train one to do research, to train one to scholarly standards. If Dobard had applied the best scholarly methods to his writing, he wouldn’t be in the situation. I don’t know why he didn’t- whether he chose to write a book he knew didn’t meet scholarly standards, or whether he was doing his very best and was poorly trained in his doctoral education. But being an art historian not a historian doesn’t provide an excuse.
> I’m sure that when the book was written, the authors could not have envisioned its popularity, nor could they, in their wildest dreams, have foreseen the negative response it would elicit from the quilt history community. While one or both (authors) may have made a quilt or two before writing the book, neither of them were seasoned, trained quilt historians, like many on this list.
Well, you’re more charitable than I. 🙂 I think they DID envision the popularity; what they didn’t envision was that there WERE people who were knowledgable enough about quilt history to challenge their methods and conclusions. But as a Ph.D., Dobard should have engaged in a literature review before beginning the book. That’s something you learn in your very first class: that you NEVER EVER take a position on a topic until you’ve researched the positions other people have taken, and why.
I’ve got to admit- getting 2-3 emails daily about how I can buy a Ph.D. from some diploma mill, I have very low tolerance for Ph.D.s who aren’t maintaining scholarly standards in their writing…
From: Judy Schwender <sister3603@>
Hello- I did a google search for “Scottish twilling” and came up with this link which indicates the stitch was used in the construction of the Book of Kells: http://pcssd.org/nwoodart/book_of_kells%20WRITTEN%20REPORT.htm Then, through www.dictionary.com, I found that the stitch is also called a Palestrina Stitch, check it out at: http://inaminuteago.com/stitchdict/stitch/palestrina.html Judy Schwender
Babette Moorleghen <happyquilterq@> wrote: This particular quilt was one I had never seen before and was identified on the information card as made with Scottish Twilling. It was a type of applique.
From: Babette Moorleghen <happyquilterq@>
Judy, thank you for the information. I had already found the site that detailed the Palestrina Stitch but hadn’t dug deep enough for the information on the Book of Kells. I’ll do some more research and see what comes up. I would love to view the quilt again so will contact the ladies who did the quilt show and ask for their help. As I said, the information card had the name of a local priest as the owner of the quilt. Again thank you. Babette in Illinois
From: “cjsp70” <cjsp70@>
Am planning a mini-vacation over the 20th anniversary of my 39th birthday in October. Could someone tell me when the museum is open and if there are fees. I am taking my best soul-friend to Marion IN. with
me. We love quilts and antiques so this seemed the perfect blend. Also is there a quilt store in the area? I am enjoying all the discussions
about “truth” and “cleaning bugs out of textiles”, but my real field of expertise is taking care of premature babies. My contributions to the
list will be more in the form of questions unless somebody wants to know about RDS. Thanks for your help in planning my trip. Pat Sauer
From: Patricia L Cummings <quiltersmuse@>
I’ve got to admit- getting 2-3 emails daily about how I can buy a Ph.D. from some diploma mill, I have very low tolerance for Ph.D.s who aren’t maintaining scholarly standards in their writing…
Instead of promoting integrity in learning and the pursuit of true scholarship, some institutions seem intent on collecting the highest fees possible while continuing to pay their staff poorly, or in a manner that could be improved. The most highly qualified professors leave for better financial opportunities.
I remember when a first year Spanish student in one of my college classes copied an entire page out of a book and presented it as her own work. I was so incensed at this insult to me to think that I would not realize what was going on, I asked that she be removed from my class and she was. (I owned the same book and recognized the text). Of course, this did not make points with the Dean, nor with the parents of thestudent. However, I am happy that I upheld my own moral principles. I hope that the student learned a greater lesson from the experience. You can’t cheat your way through life and think you will never be caught.
Talk about ‘”true confessions”, Judy. That’s mine. Whew! I feel better. So much for washing antique quilts and kicking kids out of class!
Pat 🙂
From: “Jan Drechsler” <quiltdoc@>
Let’s not forget that Sodium Perborate, which is the ‘magic’ ingrediant of the soap ‘Restoration’ as well as ‘Vintage Textile Soak, is a bleaching agent. It is not an inert chemical. Period. Use more than a dollop of common sense when wet cleaning. And rinse, rinse, rinse with de-ionized water afterwards.
PERK!, according to the company website chemical list contains:
Product Name PERK! Chemical Family Mixed alkoxylates, polyoxyethylene esters
I have no idea what that means with respect to textiles.
There was a discussion on Sodium Perborate June, 2003 and I believe that Pat Cummings started the thread. Research in the archives: Subject: Inadequate labeling on textile cleaning products for the general market. June 30, 2003.
Jan — Jan Drechsler in Vermont Quilt Restoration; Quilting teacher www.sover.net/~bobmills
From: Gail Ingram <gingram@>
Just heard from Sally Ambrose, whose home is in range of the terrible fires. She was preparing for “just in case” and keeping her eye on the weather.
She wrote: I arrived home from Seattle and a wonderful quilt show around noon today. As I came over the mountain pass, I could see that “my” valley was covered in a haze of smoke. The fire that had seemed sort of contained before I left, had exploded and plumed. That means that hugh fire ballse shoot into the air and the pluming means that the fire rapidly moves in every direction. Our area is on a level 2 evacuation alert that warns us to prepare ourselves for evacuation. Level 3 is get your selves moving!!! We are having thunder now, but so far no lighting and no moisture. With thunder, comes wind.
Thought we might all remember her in our thoughts and prayers.
Gail
From: brickworks@
Hi all, Jacqueline Tobin is still around, at least she has not taken a low profile in the Denver area…but then again, this is home turf for her, too. I head out tomorrow to take our oldest daughter to college at the University of Colorado — what a wrench, but it needs to happen. Cindy
Brickworks http://www.cindybrick.com
From: Margareta.Faustcec.eu.int
Good morning,
I too feel like sharing a sad experience, only this time it was a sampler – English, 1820s, cute motifs in various colours and a verse in black thread. Usually these parts embroidered in black have a kind of blackish shadow around them because of the dye (I think there’s a technical term for it?). Well, my sampler was pristine. Mark the word WAS. The linen was quite dark and felt kind of grubby, but of course I knew better than to soak it! I thought I would only ‘freshen it up’ by sprinkling some water and pressing it wrong side up. As I lifted it up from the ironing board… part of the verse was left on the board, and the text on the sampler had those blackish shadows in several places… (At least, everyone can see now that it’s not a repro!).
Another trial and ERROR was applying rust removing liquid to a approx 1900 cotton print blouse. The print vanished before my eyes (but the rust stain stayed).
Margareta, a little bit wiser now.
From: KareQuilt@
Here are the hours of operation for The Quilters Hall of Fame in Marion, Indiana, in response to an inquiry posted by Pat Sauer recently.
The Quilters Hall of Fame is open to the public March – December during the following hours:
a) Tuesday thru Saturday 10:00 AM – 4:00 PM b) Sunday 1:00 PM – 4:00 PM c) Closed Mondays ( To the public. Staff will be working.) d) Closed January and February for maintenance purposes (Staff will be working) e) Special hours on an E2809Cas needed basisE2809D. Special Bus, group or school tours can be scheduled at anytime by special arrangement, even when the museum is closed to the public.
At the present moment we have a three-month Grand Opening exhibit hanging of
quilts loaned by our Honorees, in addition to the Marie Webster room and the
exhibit about the founding of the Quilters Hall of Fame. We also have a Muse um Shop in which we carry quilt books, handmade quilted items and other quilt-related gift items such as our quilt-wearing-Santa series Christmas or naments by CatE28099s Meow. Some of these items, such as our new book about our 34 H onorees and the Santa series and memberships, can be ordered directly from our website.
If you are not already on our mailing list, may I suggest you contact the office at quilterscomteck.com with your name, address, phone number and e-mail address. We will be sending out the new QHF Quilt Contest Guidelines soon and the registration form for the Celebration 2005 in March. You may wish want to receive these mailings on a timely basis.
Thank you for your interest in our endeavors. QHF wouldn’t be a reality now without the support of quilters like yourself!
Karen B. Alexander Press Secretary The Quilters Hall of Fame QHF Office: quilterscomteck.com Website: http://www.quiltershalloffame.org/ Address: P.O. Box 681 Marion, Indiana 46952
