November 13 - 15, 2006 - QuiltHistory

Quilt Block History, Quilt History Resources, Regional Quilt History

These restored messages come from the Quilt History List, an online forum where quilt historians, collectors, researchers, appraisers, and enthusiasts discussed antique quilts and related textiles. The archive dates from 1996 through approximately 2016 and is being restored gradually. Sign up in the form at the bottom of the page if you want to know when a new page is added. Original spelling, opinions, formatting, and inactive links may remain unchanged.

Primary topics of this QHL Digest:

Taken to Task Over Oprah and the Code — Pat Cummings answers the charge that she started a new myth by saying Oprah believes in the secret quilt code, and several members respond.
Oprah’s Web Site and Brackman’s Book — Ark Quilts reports what Oprah’s site and guest list actually show, and Meg Cox praises Barbara Brackman’s new book as a corrective.
The Thomas Jefferson Myth — Bobbi Finley and Gail Ingram trade what DNA testing and Monticello say about Jefferson, and Karen Evans and others cite Wikipedia and other Louisiana cases. (see the article on quilt folklore)
Why the Story Sticks — Pat Cummings and Dale Drake discuss why people cling to the code story, and Mitzi and others talk about giving talks in museums.
Reverse Appliqué in a Dear Jane Block — Brenda Applegate asks whether reverse appliqué was used in the 1860s for the B12 Star Flower block, and Barbara Burnham and Mitzi answer.
Georgia and Mississippi Quilt Books — Lucinda Cawley and Gail Ingram discuss the Georgia quilt book from the Wormsloe Foundation, and Lucinda describes a Dating Club meeting.

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:39:22 EST | From: Mitzioakes

Being a computer dummie, how do I get to the eboard so I can see all these pictures of your great quilts? Mitzi from rainy Vermont

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:55:47 -0500 | From: Barb Garrett (bgarrett421)

Hi Mitzi

This is the link to the eboard — put it in your “essential bookmarks” folder — that’s what I’ve done

http://www2.eboard.com/eboard/servlet/BoardServlet

Barb in rainy southeastern PA

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:59:10 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings (pat)

Dear friends,

I have hesitated to respond to the statement that I am responsible for creating a new myth due to saying that Oprah believes in the secret quilt code.

I have asked a few other people if they remember Oprah promoting HIPV in her book club. One person, categorically denies the possibility. I do not know if anyone here might remember that circumstances.

I did not pick the information off of a chokecherry bush, nor pull it out of thin air. Somewhere along the line, that information was told to me, and I, without personally verifying it, repeated it. I did not and do not believe that other quilt historians would lie about something like that.

Second, I am not the only person who has spoken of Oprah’s influence. Check Leigh Fellner’s website. As of yesterday, in the beginning paragraphs, she mentioned Oprah.

I am also told that Laurel Horton mentioned Oprah in a talk she gave in Nebraska. When questioned by someone in the audience, Laurel did not know where she got that information, according to sources. Knowing the thoroughness of Laurel’s research and her dedication to scholarship, I don’t very much that she would be involved in imparting information that was merely hearsay.

Now, I don’t think that Leigh or Laurel have been smoking anything funny, and I know for sure that I don’t smoke anything at all. How can three people who are careful and responsible researchers have reached the same independent conclusion?

I’ll tell you, it has felt kind of weird to have my integrity attacked. I am usually praised for my thoroughness of research. I’m not in the habit of creating false information for publication.

That said, I was pleased when a reader wrote today to update me on a new fact that she found. Straightaway, I made the change to the UGRR file on my website. You can read the improved file about the Monkey Wrench quilt block, there.

If I were defending a dissertation, I suppose I would have all of my facts in a row, concerning the reasons behind my statement about Oprah. I did find out that she did, indeed, feature Raymond Dobard, Jr., Ph.D., on at least one program. That alone is an endorsement of sorts, directly and indirectly. Whether or not she ever read the book, and/or made any sense of it, if she did, remains to be seen. Perhaps I am assuming too much to think that she actually believes in the code. I did not watch that particular show.

The bottom line is this: While it was suggested by one angry Black woman, who sent a copy to Oprah of her letter to me which said that she believed in the code and didn’t care what I thought, and suggesting I (or was it “we”?) be on the show, that was never an intention or goal or desire of mine. In fact, anyone who knows me at all, knows how downright anti-social I can be, and how much I like to just hibernate with my own projects. It’s usually a case of “I love humanity – it’s people I can’t stand.”

So, this is the scoop, I mentioned Oprah, in passing, thinking that the information shared was already known. Being a geezerette, some details escape me and I could not verify anything immediately. I suppose I should have said, “Oprah seems to me to believe in the secret quilt code because of x, y, and z” – the later being reasons listed.

The fact of the matter remains. Unless people are duping themselves and have decided to “believe,” it continues to be a real disservice to Black people to hand them a fabricated heritage. My goodness, there are certainly enough first hand accounts of what really did happen.

All the pretty little stories in the world won’t take away the pain, the suffering, the degradation and the sheer misuse of fellow human beings. The idea of slavery makes my blood boil and makes me want to smash things.

So, for those of you who always lean on the “race card” when you run out of real ammunition to counter the arguments of historians, go ahead and call me a racist or any other stupid name you can contrive. No one is paying me to care. No one is paying me to share important historical information on my website. No one is paying me to continually seek the truth. So, go ahead, call me a liar, and when that finger is pointed at me, there will be four other ones, pointing at YOU.

Sorry for the outburst of anger. I guess I’m just fed up. Otherwise, I’m a very sweet old lady. (big grin)

Pat Cummings

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:19:24 EST | From: RAGLADY

It’s too bad that the E-board link can’t print on the footer section of messages as a default setting ….. Or can it?? Kris – is that possible with a Lyris run list?

Gloria raglady

bgarrett421 writes: > http://www2.eboard.com/eboard/servlet/BoardServlet?ACTIONBOARD_SHOW& > SITE_NAMEDestination&BOARD_NAMEVintagePictures&SESSION_IDpb9zllg879tl08364 > Barb in rainy southeastern PA

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:42:52 -0900 | From: Gloria hanrahan (gloria)

I really don’t think that the discussions on HIPV is preaching to the choir. Not all of us on this list have the same level of quilt history knowledge. Some of us are just learning to read music, some are ready to harmonize and some just want to be part of the listening audience. Some are ready to be soloists.

I’m very pleased to have this continuing information and as with all email lists, the delete key is very easy to use.

Gloria Hanrahan

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:44:38 -0800 (PST) | From: Kris Driessen (krisdriessen)

I agree with Pat when she says, “…it continues to be a real disservice to Black people to hand them a fabricated heritage. My goodness, there are certainly enough first hand accounts of what really did happen.”

That is my *biggest* complaint about the UGRR myth. Let’s research and publicize the REAL heros, not make up stories designed to sell quilts, books, fabric, lectures, music, what-have-you.

Kris

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:47:59 -0800 (PST) | From: Kris Driessen (krisdriessen)

Responding to another question – you can get to our E-board without a lot of difficulty. Just go to http://www.quilthistory.com (our home page) and click on Gallery. If you would like to add or delete a picture and don’t know how, check out the subscription information page at http://www.quilthistory.com/subscribe.htm

Kris

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:26:06 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings (pat)

Thanks to a friend, here is a link to check out:

http://www.oprah.com/tows/booksseen/tows_book_19990118_jtobin.jhtml

Guess I was not having delusions, after all.

Pat

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:43:15 EST | From: Jccullencrew

In a message dated 11/13/2006 5:00:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pat writes:

Sorry for the outburst of anger. I guess I’m just fed up. Otherwise, I’m a very sweet old lady. (big grin)

Hi Pat, I always read your posts because of your knowledge of history in regard to quilting and your knowledge of the UGRR in particular. I am also a geezerette, but I do remember writing to Oprah a while ago about a show/comments that touted the UGRR myth, and giving her your website as a starting off place to find the answers to the other side of the story. I didn’t expect an answer and never got one. The truth as I recall it is that she (Oprah) did mention the myth as being true so there are more than a few people who would have no problem with your mentioning it as you did. I am always for good discussion, but abhor mud slinging, name calling, etc. It’s not productive at all and certainly is a way to divert attention away from finding the truth of the matter. I don’t think this will resolve itself in the near future w/o lots of emotional outbursts from those who are true believers in the myth. So quilters who know the facts will continue to work on the knowledge being passed along to future generations by publishing papers, making speeches, and going to the schools in order to educate the teachers. It’ll be a slow process indeed. Hang in there. You are not alone in your thinking. Regards, Carol Grace

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:12:40 -0500 | From: Karen Evans

Amen to what Kris said. Why not talk about Harriet Powers, whose quilts are folk art masterpieces? Or Harriet Tubman, the great abolitionist, who *did* know how to quilt? Or all the quilting co-ops run by black women in the 1960s and 1970s? Or Elizabeth Keckley, Mary Todd Lincoln’s dressmaker and confidant, who made a spectacular Log Cabin of rich silks from Mary’s gowns? Or the anonymous house slaves who made some of the glorious Southern quilts that were long attributed to their mistresses?

Put it another way: is anyone seriously advocating throwing out our children’s history texts in favor of ones where George Washington chops down a cherry tree (made up by Parson Weems), Betsy Ross makes the first flag (largely made up by her descendants), Nero fiddles while Rome burns (he wasn’t in the city, and violins weren’t invented for another 1400 years), and Pocahontas saved John Smith out of love (she was a child when he was captured by her father, and his memoirs are largely fictional)? HIPV is on the same level. It’s an attractive and charming story, but *it’s not true*. To blithely let it be taught to our children verges on the criminal.

Karen Evans

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:04:06 EST | From: TEXTIQUE

Karen;

I can’t agree more. I also can’t believe Ms Tobin states that she had no control over the fact that incorrectly dated quilts were used in the book. If it is rushed to publication with false info and misleading pictures then you take your name off the cover. It is also too late for her to tell us that it has been misinterpreted to mean actual quilts when that was not her purpose. It is too late to say it was only a theory that has been misused by others to be something she didn’t intend. When scholarship is wrong it should be corrected. What are we as researchers and historians but people in search of the facts.

Jan

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:48:25 EST | From: Mitzioakes

From one ‘sweet old lady’ to another ‘sweet old lady’ – I remember Oprah talking about HIPV – it wasn’t one of her Book Selections was it? But I back you100% on you said in this email. Guess we can never please everybody all the time (or something like that). I appreciate all you have shared with us readers and hope you continue to delve into the history of the world of quilts. Keep in touch A Vermont Geezerette too Mitzi

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:53:21 EST | From: Mitzioakes

Thanks Kris for the easy way to do the gallery. While I have you, send me your expenses for the trip here to Vermont for judging our show! Travel and meals etc – we have the money for you. Everyone who had a quilt judged was very, very happy with their results – some had never entered a judged quilt and to win a ribbon – well, they were like little kids on Christmas Morning…..thanks for the super job you did. I hope you had a good time too and I am looking forward to your appearance at the Green Mtn. Quilt Guild next May. More info on that will be following shortly – hopefully a class of some kind can be arranged too. Again, thanks for sharing your exprtise (just to let you know you guys gave ME a blue and red ribbon on two of my quilts!!!! I was the little kid at Christmas , had never won a blue in any show before……) Mitzi oakes

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:57:55 EST | From: Mitzioakes

I guess I was correct too as to remembering that HIPV was one of Oprah’s Books! Nice to win sometimes isn’t it??? Mitzi

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:54:27 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram (gingram)

>quilters who know the facts will continue to work on the knowledge being >passed along to future generations by publishing papers, making speeches, >and going to the schools in order to educate the teachers. It’ll be slow

Like many, I weary of this subject of UGRR.

But one of the most apt comments on the subject made on this list recently is that what is interesting about myths like this is not simply the myth itself, but the motives (understood and not understood) of those who create and perpetuate it. In this case, selected members of the African-American community and more schools and teachers and quilting groups and ordinary folks than bear counting.

That subject would make an interesting documentary. Yet in this era of PC, when genuine iconoclasm is so out of favor, who would make it? Fund it? Call Tobin’s scholarship to task? As the recent election suggests, we’ve forgotten that we may disagree about an issue and still treat those who support it respectfully.

Most who know anything at all about slavery and the real underground railroad, with all its risks, would find the idea of quilts as signals ridiculous if they stopped one minute to think of it. Yet this story has swept a lot of people up into its vortex, and it keeps getting bigger. It meets a need or needs that are obviously felt by many.

It’s the myth-making that is the compelling story, I think.

Gail

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:13:14 -0800 (PST) | From: Ark Quilts (quiltarkmv)

I was curious about the comments regarding Oprah Winfrey and the Hidden in Plain View Book. She has had famous quilt artist Faith Ringgold on her show several times, promoted ABC quilt projects for babies, and even talked about the AIDS Quilt Project. So it would seem she would be fairly well informed about quilts.

So I went to Oprah’s web site to search for the book title & author. There were no links to the book or the author. If you search of the list of books from the Oprah’s Book List & those discussed in O Magazine as listed on her website, Hidden in Plain View is not on either list. However, if you search the web site with the term “quilts”, the book reference appears in show descriptions, stories, etc. http://www.oprah.com/obc/obc_landing.jhtml

There is an article on her website that discusses the “quilt code” as fact, Remembering the Spirit of Freedom based on a show where caucasian & African-American descendents of Thomas Jefferson met. http://www.oprah.com/rys/journeys/1998/rys_journeys_19981112.jhtml

The reference to the show that discussed the book was: http://www.oprah.com/tows/booksseen/tows_book_19990118_jtobin.jhtml The date of the show was 1/18/99.

I could not find an index to her magazine, O, so unless someone has subscribed to that publication and can check back issues it might be difficult to find out if the Hidden in Plain View book was discussed in it.

Several years ago, back when the Smithsonian started importing quilts (1992-93), I remember hearing that Oprah Winfrey was a quilt collector. Does anyone know of any documentation of that??

Just more food for thought on HIPV. Connie Ark, in NW Ohio

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:32:43 -0600 | From: Karen Musgrave (KarenMusgrave)

The Alliance for American Quilts (www.centerforthequilt.org ) eBay auctions are coming to an end–only three more more auctions! This week we have great OOP books and Quilt Engagement calendars that will NEVER be offered again from us–Alway There: The African American Presence in American Quilts, Abstract in Design in American Quilts, Kentucky Quilts 1800-1900, Quilt Engagement Calendars for years 1989, 1990 and 1991. Don’t miss out on getting these great buys while helping a great quilt organization. You can check it out by going to http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZalliancequilts or search by our seller’s name- alliancequilts. Happy bidding and thanks for the support.

All the best, Karen Musgrave

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:12:06 -0800 (PST) | From: Laura Fisher (laurafisherquilts)

How about making lemonade out of this all too reading-time consuming experience –we are talking to people already informed Let’s take a Xenia approach and every time someone has the urge to add two more cents to this issue, either donate it (and more) to a worthy cause instead, or share your knowledge with some local schools, community groups teaching kids to quilt, anywhere this information would have a fresh impact, and let’s change our activity to VISIBLE IN PLAIN VIEW, and post some fresh new (old) quilt acquisition to the eboard instead so we can all have something else to view!! Thanks

Laura Fisher

p.s. The movie The Good Shepherd is about to be released, and in it is much textile folk art I rented them, no quilts, but rugs, ships woolies, needlework etc.

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:36:57 EST | From: MegMaxC

Hello QHL List: my name is Meg Cox, a longtime quilter and author of the forthcoming book The Quilter’s Catalog: A Comprehensive Resource Guide. I’m generally a lurker, but I enjoy the level of discourse on this list and I’ve been following closely, among other things, the UGRR discussion. I’ve seen Barbara Brackman’s new book and I think it’s awesome and will be a helpful corrective to the myth, because she lays out the actual historical record on slaves and quilts and does it in such a compelling way. I applaud you all for the measures you’ve taken and will take to spread the word, including the edits to Wikipedia. That’s a good open forum where ideas and viewpoints in the popular culture are viewed and debated, and it’s important to air the results of good historical research there so you do reach beyond the “choir” with your message. My query has to do with Ruth Finley. Since I know that certain aspects of her scholarship have been questioned after the fact, I’d like to know whether her description of the bride’s quilt in Old Patchwork Quilts and the Women Who Made Them is still considered accurate. My book is a resource guide and not a work of scholarship, but I do thread in sections on quilt history and want to make sure my facts are straight. She says that women in the nineteenth century were expected to make a baker’s dozen of quilts, which would become part of their dowry, and that the 13th, the bride’s quilt, was especially elaborate. I would like to know if this information has been challenged. Thanks so much for your time. warmly, Meg Cox Princeton, NJ www.megcox.com

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:26:35 -0800 | From: Janet Bahr (janetquilt)

I am a lurker who finds herself in need of all your brilliant minds.

I have a quilt on ebay and am very curious as to its possible origins. 220048169938

Can anyone shed any light on it for me? Although it is machine stitched it is beautifully done. The stitching is intricate and closely quilted.

Thank you.

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:26:02 +1100 | From: Lorraine Olsson

Hello Janet, This looks like a modern (Pottery Barn?) rendition of a wholecloth quilt. I have two in my house just for every day bed covers. Grand Children can not hurt them. I paid the asking price, $99 , new for mine.

Cheers, Lorraine in Oz

From: “Janet Bahr” Subject: [qhl] wholecloth quilt on ebay

I have a quilt on ebay and am very curious as to its possible origins. 220048169938

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:06:26 -0500 | From: Lucinda Cawley (lrcawley)

The best way to handle a dank, chilly fall day is to look at antique quilts. On Sunday Hazel Carter asked the members of the Dating Club to remember our dear friend Cathy Smith. We brought quilts we had bought from Cathy. Her husband Terry joined us with a few of the quilts that Cathy owned. What emerged as we went around the table showing quilts and sharing memories was the sense of Cathy’s generosity, interest, style and wit. We talked about the lovely spring days when Cathy hosted the Dating Club at her house with the beautiful view of the Magothy River. Many people told of approaching Cathy’s booth at an antique show to be greeted by the welcome words “I have something for you.” Cathy knew what each of her friends particularly liked and what would fit into a collection. More than one person told of receiving something special as a gift. We saw what has to be the word’s best Sunbonnet Sue. You can see it for yourself on page 140 of America’s Glorious Quilts. It’s dated 1930 and signed with initials E.E. One Sue has a real braid of human hair. Many of them have dimensional purses and hats. The embroidery details are incredible: birds and animals of all kinds. There was a classic Joseph’s Coat and a wonderful Crazy with a back of red and gold satin strips and fabulous embroidery which included not just the obligatory spider but a very large roach. A Stripy featured Nine Patches on point separated by strips of faux patchwork Baby Blocks. My absolute favorite was a folk art top with trees and animals (including the NRA eagle) dated 1936. It was a good afternoon. Thank you Hazel for arranging it. Cinda on the Eastern Shore

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:41:55 -0500 | From: Lucinda Cawley (lrcawley)

Georgia Quilts: Piecing Together a History (A Wormsloe Foundation Publication)” Anita Zaleski Weinraub; I found this while trolling amazon.com. Does anyone know anything about it? Cinda on the Eastern Shore

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:00:35 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram (gingram)

> There is an article [on] the “quilt code” as fact, on [an Oprah] show where caucasian & African-American descendents of Thomas Jefferson met.

It would be more accurate to say “alleged African-American descendents of Thomas Jefferson.”

The most respected American Jefferson scholars dispute this claim with compelling evidence. It’s just hard to prove a negative.

Gore Vidal’s pop biography in the seventies popularized what had originally been a campaign claim made by Jefferson’s enemies and treated as a vicious and baseless political ploy by those who knew him. Vidal’s biography is an interesting read but not historically reliable.

Elections in Jefferson’s time were far more vicious than they are now, believe it or not, and many claims made in print and from platforms were completely bogus.

John and Abigail Adams objected strongly to slavery and Jefferson’s participation in the institution. They were intimates of Jefferson. For instance, they persuaded him France was no place for his daughter, Patsy, who stayed with them in England most of the time Jefferson was in France. They maintained a voluminous correspondence. Yet they never mention such a relationship. Abigail noted Jefferson’s “errors” candidly and often. Yet, even after the Case of the Midnight Judges separated Adams and Jefferson, I know of nowhere that Abigail acknowledges such a claim.

Most demanding historians and Jefferson biographers believe Peter Carr, Jefferson’s profligate nephew, to have been the source of the Hemmings connection. His personality and his behavior make that speculation credible. DNA evidence supports Carr’s connection as easily as Jefferson’s or other family members’. Jefferson spent a lifetime trying to put Carr on the straight-and-narrow. He never succeeded.

This is one of those occasions where two myths seem to meet.

And again, it is interesting to trace their origins in the needs of a later generation.

Gail Ingram

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:04:22 -0500 | From: Brenda & Roger Applegate (rbappleg1)

I am currently working on the 1860’s Dear Jane Sampler. I have come to a block that reverse appliqué is recommend. Was this common in the 1860’s, or should I stick with traditional appliqué. The patience that Jane must have had.

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:36:03 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram (gingram)

It’s due for publication asap \<g>. Spring, maybe. I believe it is based on the Georgia Quilt survey. Gail

> Georgia Quilts: Piecing Together a History ” Anita Zaleski Weinraub;

From: Barbara Burnham

Brenda, I have seen exquisite reverse appliqué quilts made during that time, and several much earlier. If reverse method is “recommended” as you say, it might be much easier to do that way. Which block are you referring to? Barbara Burnham

Brenda & Roger Applegate wrote: I am currently working on the 1860’s Dear Jane Sampler. I have come to a block that reverse appliqué is recommend. Was this common in the 1860’s, or should I stick with traditional appliqué. The patience that Jane must have had.

Brenda Applegate

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:16:27 -0600 | From: Catherine Litwinow (litwinow62)

Good morning from jacket weather in the Midwest. Eli Leon has brought his quilts to the Figge Art Museum, (our new multi-million $$$ museum) He will be speaking Nov. 18th: Improvisation in African Textiles &African American Quilts. Faith Ringgold will lecture Nov. 29th–her program in conjunction with a local grade school. My sit and sew group helped make 65 self portrait quilts for inner city 1st graders (+ we got it done in 3 days!) Fingers are crossed that there will be objective listeners at the book review of HIPV at the Bettendorf library this afternoon. Wrap your self in documented quilts and stay warm. Catherine Noll Litwinow

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:14:25 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings (pat)

When I was a child, my oldest brother, Jack, always an extremely selfish individual, would tell me to “pipe down” – in essence, to shut up and go away. His negative attitude toward me continued throughout his life. He died in 1996. May he rest in peace.

Truth be known, I have never been real good at shutting up. In fact, I’ve been pretty adamant about expressing my opinions. Molded by Jack, and the experiences of my youth, I am not about to stop communicating now.

For Your Information

There have been too many diversionary tactics in this fight about the UGRR controversy. I just heard this week that there is a group of otherwise rational individuals, some who are museum officials, who think that the only dispute about it lives on the qhl list, and that everyone else is in agreement. That could be believable, but is that not yet another myth?

Is it also true, as has been stated elsewhere,(not naming sources), that all members of the qhl list are white racists?

If I am spelling the word “racist” wrong, it is because I’m too lazy to look it up, and because I don’t personally use the word often.

More Critical Thinking Needed

I like the direction that Gail was going in, the other day, when she mentioned that myths play a role and that we should think about what purpose(s) the UGRR Myth serves, for those who “believe” in it.

“Believe,” in quotes, is what I am saying now, not a quote from Gail. I’m remembering what Laurel has had to say in her approach to the subject as folklore. I’m also thinking of the angry, Black woman who told me that she “believes” in the code and will promote it even more because of my article in The Quilter magazine.

Why do people want to believe myths? Yes, that is the crux of the matter.

I offer a couple of thoughts:

Storytelling is an integral part of African culture. When stories are repeated, even within a family, they are not passed along in a complete or accurate fashion. Stories are sort of like the game of “Gossip” that children play. If you don’t know what game to which I refer, it is the one where a statement is whispered by one child to another to another and to another, etc. and once the message has gotten around the classroom, the final recipient repeats what has been said. The message is usually garbled and funny because it is not like the original message at all.

People like to bond, and feel that they are part of a greater whole. So, the UGRR myth is one of triumph. The slaves were not really at the mercy of their masters. See, they were smart, and they were able to outwit them by passing messages on cloth. How clever! Who would have thought?

Before I write a book here, I will finish by saying that I patiently read all of the posts on this list, whether they interest me greatly or mildly, and I do not believe I have ever asked anyone to “shut up,” or to change the subject.

If quilt history IS the subject of our interest, and the UGRR quilt code is now, dismally, part of that history, why should any of us who want to say something about it be told to quit talking about it. To me, this is just pulling down the shade on potentially good information, and dismissing a chance for all of us to connect and feel supported, so that we CAN feel fortified and confident in going out into the world to share what we know, based on fact, not fiction.

your ornery associate,

Patricia Cummings http://www.quiltersmuse.com

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 | From: Mitzioakes

As a volunteer at the Shelburne Museum in Shelburne, VT where they have a collection of quilts that numbers 800, many of the quilts I have worked with (as a volunteer in their exhibits) seem to use reverse applique applications. I agree with you Jane S. must have the patience of a Saint with her quilt (that is now being reproduced all over the country in the Dear Jane Clubs. I had a dream many years ago that a friend of mine and myself were going to reproduce ALL of Jane’s block into a paper piecing pattern. What a dumb dream that was. Never got past the first 3 blocks…… Mitzi from VT.

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:44:47 EST | From: Mitzioakes

Pat- thank you bringing the game of ‘Gossip’ up as I have used this in some of my talks about the UGRR/quilts. I remember that game well and the final results were usually funny as heck (In fact, when I was much younger and sillier, a group of us young parents would play this game at Friday night pizza gatherings and the results were really ‘Funny’ of course we started the game out a bit more racy than we did as kids!!!!!!) I appreciate all your comments and you are far from being a racist (what I would call a racist). You seem to have things correct. Mitzi from water soaked Vermont

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:18:02 -0500 | From: Brenda & Roger Applegate (rbappleg1)

Barbara & Mitzi, I am working on B 12 Star Flower. I have never done reverse appliqué, so this shall be interesting. I started the quilt when the book first came out and then realized that the patterns in the book weren’t always exactly as Jane sewed them. So I waited for the CD to come out. I am very technologically challenged and struggled with the CD. So now I have called in the male factors of my family to help me with the computer. I like appliqué, just haven’t done reverse. I used to belong to the Dear Jane list, but dropped out of it when I quit the quilt. Now years later I have this bug to finish some projects that I started (not sure when Dear Jane will everrrrrrrr be finished)

As an aside. I appreciate reading all of the information on the UGRR. As a director for a historical site that is supposedly haunted (it isn’t), we all have to be diligent in getting the word out to dispel the myths. Thanks to all of you that take the time to respond over and over again. Sometimes there are words put together in a different way that make it easier to understand and we can paraphrase those words to get the message across to others.

Brenda Applegate

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:11:07 EST | From: Mitzioakes

Hey Brenda – I was called geometrically challenged some years ago by a nationally known quilter whose name I will not mention here, cause I just could not get my angles correct on a class she was teaching. So don’t feel bad about being technically challenged – I think of it as badge of honor. ps I AM challenged when it comes to angles etc – I just can not do them, thus the reason why I do paper pieceing 90% of the time. Mitzi

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:29:34 -0500 | From: Dale Drake (ddrake)

Pat and all:

Pat, you make an excellent point about the issue:

> People like to bond, and feel that they are part of a > greater whole. So, the UGRR myth is one of triumph. > The slaves were not really at the mercy of their > masters.

I don’t know how many visited the Oprah site mentioned earlier this week, but take a look at what the description says:

Hidden in Plain View: The Secret Story of Quilts and the Underground Railroad by Jacqueline Tobin From the show “Thomas Jefferson’s Black and White Relatives Meet Each Other” 1/18/99

For the first time, the secret codes used in slave quilt patterns that served as maps to escape on the Underground Railroad are revealed–suggesting that there was an organized African-American resistance movement that predated the Abolitionist crusade.

This is powerful stuff. Personally, I see a tie-in with my own Acadian/Cajun heritage – a people forcibly deported from their lands in the Maritimes. Lately there has been great interest in the resistance movement (well documented by contemporary British sources) led by Joseph Broussard dit Beausoleil (also well documented). So now every person of Acadian heritage says that his/her ancestor “fought with Beausoleil” – and if that were true, we’d obviously never have been kicked out of Canada – the numbers would have been overwhelming. The point: a people with oppression in their past hate the implication that they were meek compliant “participants.” Never mind the obvious reasons why resistance was a bad idea: guns, family obligations, geography, etc. Beausoleil ended up surrendering after a couple of Maritime winters for just that reason.

I sure wish it WERE true. But, as I tried to point out to my fellow quilters at our guild meeting last evening, teaching the myth as truth to the children is just wrong. I was loudly decried – just as I have been in the past when I pointed out that the UGRR sites in our county are undocumented and in many cases totally illogical (like a house built in 1862). They don’t want to not believe.

Dale Drake Former county historian now loving the world of quilt history Morgan County, Indiana

From: Bobbi Finley (bobbi_finley)

Sorry Gail, but I don’t believe you are up on the latest findings. The DNA testing definitely ruled out Carr nephews as the culprits. If you visit Monticello where they hold TJ dear and have the most devoted scholars, you will hear that Thomas was most likely the father of Sally’s children. It had to be he or his brother and Thomas was present at Monticello 9 months before all of Sally Heming’s births. The scholars have found no proof that his brother was there. So, “alleged” definitely does belong in the sentence since it cannot be definitely proved, but it is much more likely than we thought before the DNA testing. And, it is a case where African-American oral history — the story handed down in the Hemings family — might actually be true. However, I don’t happen to believe that’s the case with the quilt code!

Bobbi Finley in Virginia (whose other passion besides quilts is Thomas Jefferson!)

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 9:57:46 -0800 | From: Karen Evans

Actually, according to the summary of this matter at Wikipedia, although the matter is not definitely settled (and cannot be, absent a statement from Thomas Jefferson affirming that he fathered Sally Hemings’s children), the following is known based on the DNA evidence:

1. The Carr brothers are ruled out based on their Y chromosomes not matching those of Sally Hemings’s sons.

2. The only match from all the candidates put forth was *a* Jefferson. This is not in dispute.

3. The sole fact in dispute is whether Randolph Jefferson, Thomas’s brother, may have fathered the Hemings children. This is still under investigation, but he was not advanced as a candidate until the late th century. Thomas, OTOH, was at Monticello during the period when Hemings would have conceived all of her children.

4. The only major organization that questions Thomas’s paternity was a group of scholars financed by the Jefferson descendants’ association, which controls the cemetery at Monticello and has vehemently opposed any recognition of the Hemings descendants as Jeffersons at all, let alone descendants of Thomas.

5. Here’s the link, in case anyone is interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings

6. No one knows if Sally Hemings made quilts, but if it she did, I will bet a week’s pay that someone, somewhere, will find “coded evidence” in the stitching that Jefferseon either did or did not father her children.

Karen Evans tongue firmly in cheek

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:24:14 EST | From: TEXTIQUE

For those of you still interested in the HIPV subject, please follow this link http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00011.cfm (http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00011.cfm) . Also, the NASA children’s education site has a lesson using the code to promote star watching. Goodle “nasa, underground railroad quilts” for several links. My hometown (Dayton, OH) newspaper has written an article on this dispute since a new suburb school decorated the interior with the code blocks. There are comments from Leigh Fellner and Tobin in the article. Anyone wanting a copy can e-mail me off-list.

Jan Colorado Springs

Jan

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:46:05 EST | From: Mitzioakes

Like your ending – will start looking for that ‘quilt’ – bet it might be fodder for another book similar to HIPV. Mitzi

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:05:12 EST | From: TEXTIQUE

Ladies and gentlemen;

I had problems with HIPV before I even knew there was a controversy. I’m so sorry if I am ‘stepping in it” but I think our issues with HIPV would be better served with facts and not sarcastic remarks about Jefferson quilts. I know many of us are upset with the blank acceptance of the code but jokes like that only give fodder to the opposition who already think we have an agenda. A quote from an old TV show is “Stick to the facts, ma’am.” No disrespect is meant by this post so please understand the importance of my humble remarks. I’m sensing more anger than reason.

Jan Colorado Springs

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:15:02 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram (gingram)

Bobbie,

I was at Monticello perhaps three years ago and noted that information, but when I got home and checked my books, for some reason I questioned it. Will check my notes. My books are in a fine disarray right now, being reorganized, but I will find the book which deals with this most specifically, by a history prof over at George Mason and let you know offline what the reasoning is there. I remember finding it compelling. His book was sanctioned by two other major Jefferson scholars.

I know about the time-frame evidence, but it leaves many possibilities besides TJ. I rule out nothing when it comes to the matter of the human heart and hormones, but I don’t think the kind of post hoc ergo propter hoc evidence offered is sufficient to prove anything. There were lots of other babies born in same time period. In fact, in this case, I find the oral tradition far stronger evidence. There is also a white oral tradition to be considered.

Personally, Abigail Adams, even when she was furious with Jefferson, has swayed me, as does the response of people like Madison to the whole newspaper smear and the complete absence of even an allusion to the liason in their writings and notes.

I’m not a fan of many of Jefferson’s political ideas. His faith in human reason far exceeds mine, for instance. And yes, I do know how “Mr. Jefferson” is revered—in a way that annoys me. It’s like “Mr Bill” or “Mr Faulkner” in Oxford, MS. When Faulkner was alive and writing, the town called him “Count No Account” and were outraged by what they considered his “filthy” books. Jefferson was not the most popular man in Virginia, either. Yet, when I’m at Monticello or in Charlottesville, I sometimes expect him to appear, such is the way he is referred to. Isn’t it surprising what someone’s not being around can do to enhance his reputation?

You are right, of course: the doubt involved in TJ’s situation is far different from what appears certainty in the KIPV case, though again, it’s just difficult to prove a negative proposition.

In the past decade several books have been written about Louisiana matches between a white slaveholder and a Negro slave. In one case, the match was acknowledged by the man, who maintained some contact with the woman after she moved to St. Louis. Following the oral tradition (and, I guess I should add, several letters and photos), a later descendant located his “white” relatives here. A Washington Post writer, he was much more sophisticated than his white relatives, but both seemed to benefit from the meeting. Such matches were more often acknowledged in LA than in other Southern states, I think. Especially is this true in the Natchitoches area and in New Orleans.

Thanks for the correction, Gail Ingram

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 | From: Karen Evans

Actually, I was attempting to make a joke. Obviously I failed, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Karen Evans

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:30:04 +0000 | From: jocelynm

>In the past decade several books have been written about Louisiana match es >between a white slaveholder and a Negro slave. In one case, the match wa s >acknowledged by the man, who maintained some contact with the woman afte r

Gail, I’m currently reading a book entitled The Lost German Slave Girl, which i s a history of a woman who was recognized by German immigrants as an adul t slave, as a child who had been ‘lost’ after her German father died of a heart attack (her German mother had previously died). The German communi ty of New Orleans sued on her behalf (since slaves could not institute la wsuits) that she had been wrongfully enslaved. I haven’t gotten far enoug h into it to find out how it turns out (I scanned ahead and I’m pretty su re she eventually won), but the author has done a lot of research into th e issue of ‘white’ or near-white persons being enslaved in Louisiana and the rest of the South, and how courts dealt with the need to decide if a particular person were white or not. (the key issue being no white person could be a slave, so if a slave were proved to be white, they automatica lly gained their freedom)

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:33:04 -0500 | From: Laurel Horton (laurel)

Does anyone know where I can locate a photograph of Jeff Gutcheon’s quilt “Inner City”? I’m advising a graduate student on a research project, and a quilt in his study reminds me of Gutcheon piece, which I remember seeing probably twenty or so years ago. It must have been in a book or magazine, and it’s possible I’m remembering the image, title, or artist incorrectly. Different quilt patterns on the facets of a large-scale tumbling blocks–a memorable piece.

Laurel

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:55:12 -0800 (PST) | From: Barbara Burnham (barbaraburnham)

Brenda, Referring to the photo of the original B12 Star Flower in the Dear Jane book: Applique … reverse applique … it’s all how you look at it. If you reverse applique this block, you only have to stitch 3 sides of 4 brown on top of a white ground, with easy corners (that would be my choice)! Or, try to align and applique 5 tiny white curvy pieces and turn under 12 very acute points. You choose! Try it both ways and you will see why reverse applique is recommended there. And have fun! Barbara Burnham

Brenda & Roger Applegate wrote: Barbara & Mitzi, I am working on B 12 Star Flower. I have never done reverse appliqué, so this shall be interesting. I started the quilt when the book first came out and then realized that the patterns in the book weren’t always exactly as Jane sewed them. So I waited for the CD to come out. I am very technologically challenged and struggled with the CD. So now I have called in the male factors of my family to help me with the computer. I like appliqué, just haven’t done reverse. I used to belong to the Dear Jane list, but dropped out of it when I quit the quilt. Now years later I have this bug to finish some projects that I started (not sure when Dear Jane will everrrrrrrr be finished)

Brenda Applegate

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 | From: Kim Baird (kbaird)

Laurel:

I think it was in Jeffrey’s book Diamond Patchwork, which came out in 1982. I looked for mine, but I think I sold it a while back.

CY Thompson Library at UN-L probably has a copy.

Kim

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:26:04 -0800 (PST) | From: Pat Cummings (pat)

Hello!

Today, I received a rather lengthy letter from Leigh Fellner who has provided me with some updates regarding information I have on the UGRR file on my website. She has uncovered additional information regarding the song, “Follow the Drinking Gourd.”

She also provides details about the two quilts that are in a museum in N. Buxton, Canada. Neither were “slave made,” according to her note. She has corresponded with the (former) curator of The Raleigh Township Centennial Museum, and has learned that the quilts have known provenances. Please read the quoted material on my site for all the details and a link.

She questioned my link to wikipedia. I have now added a disclaimer to the suggestion to visit the site. Any wikipedia file is subject to change, at any time. As a fluid document, with input from a number of individuals, it may not remain accurate.

I am always open to suggestions, additions, and/or corrections. I try extremely hard to impart clear and accurate information, at any time, and I certainly welcome new information, as it becomes available. So, I am very thankful for Leigh’s input.

I would also like to thank all of you who have been writing to me, privately. I am so happy to know that you all care so much about the subject, and me, personally.

Now, I am waiting to see all those pretty quilts that will be appearing shortly on e-board. After this week’s posts, back and forth, I am more than willing to give the subject of UGRR a rest.

Peace begins with you.

Pat Cummings http://www.quiltersmuse.com

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:23:33 EST | From: TOTOCO

Connie – Please contact me off list. The National Quilting Association has received a request from a writer who would like to interview you – this is the only way I know to find you! Thanks. Janet White – totoco

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:14:49 EST | From: Feedsackfanatic

Anita started this book years ago after the documentation of Georgia Quilts. I can’t even remember when those were held, but I think it was at least ten years ago, even before the Olympics that were held in Atlanta. I was told that the book was set aside after her husband passed away and had no idea that it’s ready for publication. Anita is in my guild and if she’s at the meeting next week, I’ll see what information she can tell me about the book.

Paula in GA

file 10. message file – correct url

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:16:28 -0600 | From: Gail Ingram (gingram)

In light of Pat’s posting, I’ve wondered if we should even be using the word “myth” to describe this situation under discussion. Perhaps “error” or some synonym of “error” would do the job better.

Is this just a myth-in-making?

In one of his poems the poet Donald Davidson describes myth as “truest memory,” and it is in that sense that the word is best used–to describe an encompassing, universal truth. Our love of the little guy who survives not by brawn but by brain is concretized in story and storied individuals in almost all cultures. He is B’rer Rabbit. He is Odysseus. Normally myth grows out of a need to embody an important truth or meaning and is generally rooted in some fact. The great myth of the African slaves was God’s Deliverance of the children of Israel from the hands of Pharoah and the endurance and obedience required to reach that point of deliverance. Yet, its sureness is embodied in hymn after hymn and in renditions of the Old Testament by a people who were largely illiterate.

I am still surprised that JFK is usually listed among the top 3 or 4 most successful presidents by college students. A look at the records shows quite the opposite to be true. Yet he literally embodied youth and energy and altruistic commitment admired by a generation born in or just after a war when America energized itself and sacrificed on a large scale to defeat what almost everyone agreed was evil. Bogged down by a seemingly endless “cold” war, the nation was reminded by his persona of its duty and its potential and its purpose in the world.

I’m out of my league here, but folklorists on the list can tell us whether the term “myth” can be applied accurately to the HIPV phenomenon. I really wonder about its accuracy.

Dale’s point was apt, I thought.

I’m surprised that museum people would consider efforts to demand fact “racist.” I think we have to admit, however, that few among us got so concerned about the legend of quilts originating out of direst need and scraps from sewing. It might be well to ask why we feel more strongly about HIPV. Maybe we’re just more sophisticated about the subject at hand. Or weary of deferring to a minority that has perhaps claimed victimhood too long and seems to be asking us to sacrifice truth. Or simply weary of sacrificing fact or truth to the demands of PC.

In any case, all one can do if she really wishes to persuade is proclaim truth and reason in every context available. Satire is usually a powerful means of leading people to confront error. An age that had lost its believe in heroism invented Monty Python and the Holy Grail. But simply assuming HIPV to be a rewriting of history whose origins need exploration has a lot of merits. And it would help us understand what we seem not to understand—how reasonable people can believe such unbelievable things.

Maybe another myth would guide us in our work—the story of the tortoise and the hare.

Gail Ingram